Who is the Finest Fishing Guide Who Ever Lived? With Monte Burke
Podcast Transcript:
Tom: Hi, and welcome to the "Orvis Fly-Fishing Podcast." This is your host, Tom Rosenbauer. And my guest this week is my good friend, Monte Burke. Monte Burke is, in my opinion, one of the finest fly fishing writers out there. He writes about other stuff too. But Monte is gonna tell [00:00:30.019] us a story. He's a great storyteller, and he's gonna tell us a story about the greatest fly fishing guide ever. This is, in many people's opinion, the greatest fly fishing guide who ever lived, and I'm not gonna tell you who it is. You're gonna have to listen to the podcast to find out who it is. But it's a great story, it's a fun story, and I hope you enjoy the podcast.
And before we do the Fly Box, just a couple announcements. [00:01:00.420] My trip to Tecka Lodge in Argentina in late January is sold out. I do have one spot for an angler available on my Spain trip in late September, fishing for brown trout in Spain, with great food and wine, with Salvelinus. And then I also have a spot left in my trip [00:01:30.060] next March, March of 2026, at Magic Waters in Chile. And there also will be a second week tacked onto that, at a place that I can't tell you about right now because we're still finalizing the details and the price, but it will be announced pretty soon. So, if you want to spend two weeks with me in Chile, you can tack [00:02:00.150] on an extra week. We have a lot of fun on my hosted trips, and I really enjoy meeting podcast listeners and fellow fly fishers, and we always have lots of laughs and good food and great fishing. So, hope you can join me on one of those trips.
Of course, if you can't join me, we have, Orvis has lots of endorsed operations around North America, and around the world. And these are places that we've vetted. These [00:02:30.050] are places that we wanna go to, that we go on on our vacations. We inspect them for the quality of the food and safety, and of course, the fishing and the quality of the guiding, and just about everything else you can imagine. We've been doing this for a long time, and we know how to evaluate a lot. So, you can go to orvis.com/adventures, and there's an interactive map there of North America, [00:03:00.259] and you can see where our endorsed operations are. So, if you wanna plan a trip this season or next, that's a great place to go.
All right. Let's do the Fly Box. And the Fly Box is where you ask me questions, and I try to answer them, or you share a tip with listeners, and if I think your tip is valuable to other listeners, I'll put it on the air. You can either just type your question in an email, or you can attach a voice [00:03:30.004] file to your email, and maybe I'll read it on the air. The address is
The first email, from Ernie, is a suggestion, kind of a tip and suggestion. And I'll read it to you. "On a recent podcast, you suggested how a 4-weight may be better than a 3-weight for small streams. This got me to thinking about what the actual weight difference between the line sizes is." And then he attached a table, but you can find [00:04:30.144] these tables online if you look for fly line...if you search on fly line grain weight equivalents, you'll be able to find these tables. There's lots of places you can find them. "The first 30 feet of 1-weight fly line weighs 60 grains, and each next line size adds 20 grains. So a 2-weight is 80 grains, and a 3-weight is 100 grains, etc. The math shows that for the smaller [00:05:00.185] line weights, the percentage difference from one line size to the next can be quite large. And as the line weights increase, the percentage differences get smaller. So a 2-weight is 33% heavier than a 1-weight, a 3-weight is 25% heavier than a 2-weight, and a 4-weight is 20% heavier than a 3-weight. For larger sizes, a 10-weight is only 9% heavier than a 9-weight. Hopefully, this isn't too nerdy for you [00:05:30.185] and your audience." No, Ernie. It's definitely is not too nerdy, and good information to people to know. So, you know, when you're in the smaller line sizes, there is a great percentage difference. And as you go up, it probably doesn't...you know, you're thinking of buying a 9 or a 10, or a 10 or an 11, or 11 or a 12, the percentage difference isn't that much, where it does matter a lot more in the smaller line sizes. So, thank you, Ernie, [00:06:00.310] for passing that along.
Aaron: Hi, Tom. Aaron from Shreveport, Louisiana. First time doing a voice memo, so we'll see how it goes. I have a question and a, maybe some advice for a listener I heard on the Fly Box today. First question is, tying redfish crack flies. I normally tie them with lead dumbbell eyes, which works great in 3 to 2-feet water depth. But when I'm fishing [00:06:30.269] shallower than that, around oyster beds, they really get stuck in those oysters, even with weed guards. So, I was wondering what would be a better option for eyes. Would it be, like, the plastic mono eyes, or just the regular bead chain eyes?
As far as the tip for the other listener, he was talking about going to the White River and the North Fork River in Northern Arkansas in July, and gonna be waiting. Well, I was just there about two to three [00:07:00.300] weeks ago, and they were running eight units, generators, the entire time. I just looked on the generation schedule website. Same thing. They're running about seven to eight generators every single day. They've gotten a ton of rain up there, and there are very, very few places you're going to be able to wade. My best recommendation would be get a guide, or at the very least, rent a boat while you're there. [00:07:30.569] If you are on a boat on the White, you're gonna need to fish deep. So, you're gonna need to fish probably two to three flies, a really heavy tungsten beadhead stonefly, maybe tied to an egg, and then off of that, something small, like a perdigon. I had really good luck on perdigons, fishing in black, olive, pink, and blue, were the four main colors I used. It did great on those, but had to [00:08:00.069] fish really deep, and as close to the bank as you can get out of a boat. There's maybe one spot on the river I know of right now where you can actually wade, with eight units of generating going on. The North Fork was wadable if they're not running two generators. If they're only running half a generator or one generator, you can definitely wade on spots on the North Fork. And then your typical [inaudible 00:08:21] will work, with midges, things like that. And then the dry fly fishing was actually really good on the banks [00:08:30.040] with sulfurs, standard dry fly sulfurs, or even parachute sulfurs. So, sizes, you know, 14, 16, something like that. Hope that helps, and good luck. But definitely either get a guide or get a boat on the White, because it's just way too much water. Currently, they're running almost 20,000 CFS, so... Thank you. Bye.
Tom: Well, Aaron, first of all, thank you for that update on the [00:09:00.090] White River. That's very timely, and appreciate that. Regarding tying your redfish flies, yeah, you know, any fly that you use, whether it's for carp and freshwater, or bonefish or redfish, any sort of bottom-feeding or lower-water-column fish like that, you always wanna have flies with different weight eyes on them, or different weights in general. It's more important than having a [00:09:30.120] lot of different patterns. So, what I would do is I would still tie a few of them with the solid metal eyes, and, but you also want a bead chain for a little bit shallower conditions. Plus, the bead chain doesn't make as much of a splat. Sometimes that spooks the fish. And then, you do want some plastic eyes, for when fish are in really shallow water. Maybe not so much for redfish, but definitely [00:10:00.264] for bonefish when they're tailing. So, when you're tying these, any of these flies, whether it's, you know, even carp flies, it'll make a difference, you wanna have...and if you're not, you wanna tie them with all three types of eyes. And what you wanna do is, when you get out on the water, drop the fly in front of you and see how fast it sinks. Then you know, you know, you can at least estimate when [00:10:30.024] you throw the fly out to a certain depth, how long it's gonna take to reach the bottom. So, always look. Always watch the sink rate of your flies before you make your first cast. And, you know, if it sinks too quickly, and it goes right to the bottom and gets snagged, then you wanna put on one with slightly lighter eyes. And, again, in really shallow water, plastic eyes, or no eyes. You know, you don't have to have eyes on a lot of these flies. You can just leave the eyes off, or put [00:11:00.095] plastic eyes on them.
Here's an email from Clarence in Alberta. "What do you think happens to hooks left in the mouth of a fish that gets away? Last summer, I had a particularly bad knot-tying day, and three fish took off with a hook in their mouths. I have since learned to tie better knots. Does the hook eventually come out, or is the fish doomed to have the hook forever in their mouth?" Yeah, Clarence, actually, they've done studies on this, and the biologists that I've talked to that have done studies on this say that the hook comes out [00:11:30.345] fairly quickly, particularly barbless hooks. You know, barbless hook will come out very, very quickly. And a barbed hook, even a barbed hook, the place where the hook enters the jaw will slightly fester, and get softer, and then that hook will fall out, and the fish will rub them out eventually. So it's very rare that a hook will stay in a fish very long, so I wouldn't worry so much about it. Sometimes if a fish is hooked deep [00:12:00.184] and you can't get a fly out, it's best just to cut the fly off, because, you know, you don't wanna be poking around in a in a fish's throat too deeply, and if a fish is hooked deeply, best thing to do is just cut your tippet, and let the fish have the fly. It'll get rid of it pretty quickly.
Here's an email from Nathan. "Hey, Tom. Long-time listener here. Big thanks to you and the team at Orvis, as I am always impressed by the podcast and Orvis products. Well worth the money. I live along the north shore of Lake [00:12:30.205] Superior, on the Canadian side, and often fish for brook trout, with reasonable success. There is extremely low angling pressure here. I enjoy the long treks into the woods, either over land or over water, searching for the best places to fish. My question, if you were me, what would you look for in an ideal brook trout spot? Large pools at the bottom of waterfalls, small streams, inflows and outflows in the lakes and ponds? Also, what type of flies and tactics would you implement to fish these waters?" [00:13:00.125] Well, Nathan, it's gonna vary with every watershed that you fish in. All of those places actually could be good places. But in general, you know, if you're looking for bigger fish, they're going to be close to deep water, somewhere, or some really heavy structure. They'll come out in the open to feed. They'll drop down the tails of pools, or they'll go up to heads of the pools, or the soft water along [00:13:30.274] the sides of heavy water, but they, you know, they like to feed in water 2 to 4 feet deep, so you wanna find water 2 to 4 feet deep, with some deep water or structure nearby.
Now, waterfall pools are a place that you need to be careful of, because the fish generally aren't at the base of the waterfalls. It's a good place for them to hide, but not so good of a place to feed, because of all the turbulence and the bubbles. They can't really see their food, and they get knocked around. So, if you [00:14:00.210] do fish these waterfall pools, which may hold bigger fish, make sure that you fish the shallow parts first. Don't walk right up to the base of the pool and throw your fly into the waterfall. You wanna kinda sneak around the tail-out of that waterfall pool, and try a bunch of casts in the thin water, at the tail-out of that pool before you go into it. But, you know, they could also be in small streams, particularly during [00:14:30.190] the summertime. If the water warms up, you know, if the water gets to, in the mid-60s, those brook trout are probably gonna search out colder water, so spring holes or tributaries. But also, you know, inlets and outlets to lakes and things, they can be hot spots as well. So, it's gonna, again, it's gonna vary with every river, but those are some places to look for. [00:15:00.509] And, you know, you're really, as you know, you're gonna have to do some exploring to find those fish.
And as far as flies and tactics are concerned, I can't really tell you that. Again, it's gonna depend on the day and the water level. And, you know, brook trout are the same as all other trout. Some of them eat insects most of the time. Some of them will eat bait fish. Particularly, probably close to [00:15:30.259] inlets and outlets of streams, a streamer might be a good bet. Not too big of a streamer, not those big articulated ones for brook trout, usually. Smaller, brighter streamers will usually work well, but as far as other tactics and patterns, you're gonna have to observe what's hatching, what's on the rocks on the bottom of the stream, and then go from there.
Here's an email from Steve. "I have a couple of random questions for the Fly Box. I love the podcast about fishing for carp, [00:16:00.149] and have been doing more carp fishing this summer in some of the ponds around my area. They're filled with grass carp, though, not common carp. I've had a few hookups with big patterns that are big and fluffy. I'm having trouble, though, with the panfish grabbing them first, and scaring the carp. Do you have the same issue, and is there a way not to target them as much? My other question is regarding fly boxes. I've always used foam double-sided fly boxes, that have the waterproof seal. Some of my boxes are broken, due to me dropping them [00:16:30.000] on rocks constantly, and looking to replace them. Is there an advantage to foam over silicone fly boxes? Does one hold the flies better?" Steve, regarding your carp question, it's, that can be difficult, because a panfish can dart out of nowhere. I find that little smallmouth bass or little largemouths will often do that as well. And so, there probably isn't much you can do about that, but one of the things is that carp will often go into [00:17:00.565] exposed sand or mud flats, which are less likely to hold panfish. The panfish are gonna be, you know, near weed pockets and things like that. So, if you can stay away from the carp that are around the weed pockets, probably less likely to have a panfish grab it. But, you know, carp fishing is really a matter of sight fishing and precise casting. And, you know, you don't wanna randomly cast. You wanna cast right in [00:17:30.035] front of the carp, and then let the fly drop in front of them, whether you use a drag-and-drop method or just plop the fly in front of them. But, yeah. I would try to find them on the flats if you can, when they're feeding. And stay away from those weed pockets, but you're gonna have panfish grab the fly. It's part of the game.
Regarding fly boxes, you know, I think that those silicone fly boxes hold flies [00:18:00.625] slightly better than the foam boxes. But the problem with the silicone boxes, that I don't care for at all, is that they're heavy. And they're a little thicker. And you can carry a lot of nymphs in... I carry...let's see. One, two, three, four. I carry four foam fly boxes. I carry my nymphs in four foam fly boxes, and they take up very little space, and [00:18:30.154] they have almost no weight. And do the flies come out of the foam occasionally? Yeah. They do, especially beadheads. But I don't consider that a big deal, and I would much prefer to have a lighter fly box, so that I can carry more fly boxes, because I carry a lot of flies. So, I prefer the foam. The silicone are nice, but again, they're heavy, and a little bulkier.
Here's an email from Mark. [00:19:00.380] "No question for the podcast here. Just an accolade for you and your recent guests. Your podcast with Joel Peterson of TRCP was outstanding and informative. My late parents instilled in me the importance of conservation, and the significance of protecting our lands, from an early age, which has always stayed with me. Hearing mister Peterson break down the different lands and their use was very informative. Having always wondered about the different classifications of lands and their use, along with the process [00:19:30.289] for various types of access to these lands, this was great knowledge to obtain. I would have loved to hear more about other types of public lands, but I realize there are time constraints, and I'm sure the discussion could have gone on for another hour. Anyway, Tom, thank you for having this topic on your podcast. I know you stated they don't always get the highest downloads, but this discussion is so important, especially at this point in time."
Well, thank you, Mark. Yeah. And, actually, these podcasts, [00:20:00.150] on topics like public land and water quality, have been, lately have been getting just as many downloads as the "how to fix your leader" podcasts. So, I appreciate your comments. And for those of you who haven't heard this podcast, it was a couple weeks ago, or a week ago, depending on when you're listening to this. And it was with Joel Peterson. So, you can search for that on the Orvis [00:20:30.029] Learning Center, where you can search all the podcasts.
Here's an email from Mark from West Virginia. "I have a comment and a question. First, a comment. I just wanted to commend you on the podcast "All About Public Lands," with Joel Peterson. It was extremely timely, but like you, I found it very informative. I do most of my hunting on private land, but almost all my fishing on national forest land in my state. So this was an issue that hit very close to home for me and a lot of others in my state. Great decision, great podcast." And thank you, Mark. [00:21:00.650] "My question is with regards to casting practice. I try to get out in my backyard and practice my casting as often as I can. I recently purchased a fiberglass rod, which, as you know, requires a little different casting stroke than the graphite rods. Consequently, I found myself practicing with it most, because I'm trying to get the hang of it, and have been using it the most on my native brook trout streams. I also have a 10-foot, 6-inch 3-weight for euronymphing, a 3-weight graphite, and a few [00:21:30.339] 5-weight graphites that I use on occasion, depending on the type of fishing I'm doing. Am I doing myself a disservice by spending the bulk of my time practicing with my 4-weight fiberglass rod? Should I give the others equal time, or concentrate on the rod I am using the most? I am an intermediate fly caster at best, so I definitely need the practice. As always, I value your opinion. Thanks in advance."
Well, actually, Mark, you know, your basic casting stroke, and the principles [00:22:00.690] behind it, is gonna be virtually the same no matter what rod you use. Now, with a longer rod, with a longer cast, say, a 9 or 10 or 11-weight, you're gonna have to move your arm and your shoulder a bit more, to increase the length of your casting stroke. But as far as the trout rods are concerned, no. You're not gonna hurt at all practicing with that one rod. Again, the basic casting principles, whether you're fishing a short fiberglass [00:22:30.724] or a longer graphite rod, are going to be the same. Good casting form is good casting form. And, yes, you're gonna have to adjust your timing a bit, going from fiberglass to graphite, but that's all. As far as your casting form, you shouldn't be making any adjustments to your casting form, just the cadence of how long you wait for your backcast to straighten. So, I would go ahead [00:23:00.085] and keep pressing with that 4-weight. Now, of course, the Euro rod, the 10-foot, 10-and-a-half-foot 3-weight, that's a different casting style, but I'm sure you know that. But as far as casting a trout, or even a bass rod, you know, in the 3 to, say, 7 or even 8-weight line ranges, your casting form should be exactly the same.
Here's an email from Linda. [00:23:30.414] "Thank you, Tom, for all you do. Your podcasts bring happiness to long drives. I'm a 60-year-old woman, and back in the teenage years, I used to tie flies. I remember it being a lot of fun to tie in the winter, and catch fish with what I tied. I gave up fly fishing until about a week ago, when I had the chance to fly fish in Montana. The love has come back. I am now a proud owner of five fly rods and a Renzetti master vise. My question: Back in the teenage years, I don't remember [00:24:00.349] needing or using a dubbing spinner, or using a dubbing loop. If memory serves me, I would just twist the dubbing on my single-strand thread, maybe using a little water to help. How do you do it? Do you use a dubbing loop and tool? Thank you for helping to bring back the love of fly fishing to my life."
Well, you are most welcome, Linda. Yeah. You know, there's the standard dubbing technique that you learned back then, and that's fine for most flies. That's what I [00:24:30.059] do for most flies. Times when you want a thicker or a fuzzier body, or a super durable body, you can use a dubbing loop. You know, often, say, when I'm tying a [inaudible 00:24:44] or nymph, I'll just dub the abdomen in my standard way, with a single piece of thread. And then when I get to the thorax, I will form a dubbing loop, to get a fuzzier [00:25:00.230] thorax, that I can pick out. So, you can do it either way, but for bigger, bulkier flies, or ones that, where you want a lot of stuff to stick out, and you wanna comb it out or something, a dubbing loop helps. Now, you can find lots and lots and lots of videos online to see how to use a dubbing loop. And there are lots of different tools. Fly Fish Food [00:25:30.299] in particular, and Tim Flagler, of Tight Lines Productions, both of those tiers, have some great videos on different types of dubbing loops, and using tools for dubbing loops. My favorite is just a, it's a brass weight, with two little hooks that come out of it. You just form your loop and spin it in your hand. I find that one very easy to use, and [00:26:00.089] there's lots fancier and more expensive ones out there, and for certain things, they work pretty well. But that brass weight, that you spin, is simple, and handy, and short, so you can you can get it into places where it might be more difficult to get a larger dubbing twister. And I think Cheech at Fly Fish Food prefers that type of dubbing spinner too. So, good luck with it. It's kind of [00:26:30.109] fun. It's a little more difficult and time-consuming. I don't use a dubbing loop unless I have to, because I'm not that good at them. But with some practice, you can get pretty good at it, and they are actually a lot of fun to make.
Here's an email from John. "I just listened to the podcast with Antoine, which was very interesting. I enjoyed the details on the leader and the dry fly for the dropper, but there was no detail on the dropper itself. He said the dry fly couldn't support any weight. [00:27:00.224] So I'm assuming he uses something like an unweighted midge, but it would be great to get more detail there. Also, I assume with such a long leader, it is dragging across the bottom. Does this setup snag a lot? Anything he has to do to prevent this? Jig hooks, maybe?"
Well, John, I went right to the source, and sent your question to Antoine, and this is his reply. And he says, "Usually, a 2 to 2.5-millimeter tungsten bead isn't a problem. As [00:27:30.214] the nymph arrives near the bottom, where the current isn't as fast as the surface, the velocity of the line leader and dry fly will pull the nymph back up. If you hang up, make sure your nymph is on tight line to your dry. If it occurs again, put a nymph with a smaller bead. In very slow current, use a size 24 nymph with a 1.5-millimeter bead. When the fish takes the nymph, your dry fly will go upstream. If it goes down, it's not a fish, [00:28:00.005] it's the bottom." That's very interesting. "When setting the hook, go gently, or you'll break. Good luck. Happy fishing." That's from Antoine.
Ben: Hi, Tom. This is Ben from Oregon. I have a question about feathers. CDC is super popular these days, for obvious reasons, its mobility and floating properties. What about CDL? I see Coq de Leon called out [00:28:30.035] a lot for tails, for dry flies. What are the properties that make this feather worth having? And is there any other uses besides a long, straight tail? Thanks, Tom.
Tom: So, Ben, CDL, or Coq de Leon, is from a special breed of chickens that have beautiful barring on them. And, [00:29:00.734] honestly, it's like wood duck. I just like having around, because it's so cool to look at. It's a beautiful feather. The speckling is really fine, and it's very natural-looking. Now, people use it for tails on nymphs, because it's more durable than things like wood duck or mallard, or even standard hackle fibers. CDL is quite durable. And so, you wouldn't think that you would [00:29:30.035] use it on a nymph, because it's relatively stiff, but you only put a few of them on, maybe three, four, five at the most, and you get that really nice speckling that imitates a mayfly tail. And of course, for dry flies, it's great because it is quite stiff. You don't need as many fibers to support the fly. And most of the tails on mayflies are speckled, so...or they have, you know, variegations in them. So [00:30:00.184] it's a pretty nice feather to use. And it's tough to get...if you're tying a bigger dry fly, or you want really long tails on a dry fly, it's tough to get long, stiff fibers from...well, of course, you can't get them from saddle hackles, if you're tying dry flies with saddles. And the domestically-bred capes that we use for tying dry flies now, they've kinda bred out those [00:30:30.390] stiff, short, stiff hackles, used to call them throat hackles, that are along the side of the cape. You don't see those as many. So, sometimes you need a CDL feather, just to get long, stiff tails.
And there are other uses. People have tied spiders out of them. You know, if you want a really long, hackled fly, people have tied spiders out of them for dry fly fishing. Really expensive to...because you [00:31:00.099] need three or four of those hackles on it. Really expensive to tie a spider out of a CDL feather, but boy, they look beautiful. So, they're a cool feather to have. And they're not cheap, but they're, really, again, they're good-looking feathers, so I enjoy having them around.
All right. That is the Fly Box for this week. Let's go talk to Monte Burke, and you'll find out who is the greatest fly [00:31:30.170] fishing guide of all times.
Well, my guest today is writer Monte Burke. Monte and I are old friends and fishing buddies, so I'm biased, but I think that Monte is one of the best storytellers in the fly fishing world right now. And Monte, you have a new book out. You wanna tell people the name of this book?
Monte: I do. It's called "Rivers Always Reach the Sea." [00:32:00.140] And it's a collection, from the last 25 years of stories that I've written, all angling stories.
Tom: Yeah. And it's...they're great stories, and you're a great storyteller. And probably my favorite fly fishing, but one of my top three fly fishing books of all time is your book "Lords of the Fly," about the competitive tarpon world in Homosassa. It's amazing story, [00:32:30.299] amazing story of some crazy human beings, and I just loved it. I was so bummed when I reached the last page, because I enjoyed every bit of it, so...
Monte: That's nice of you to say. Someday I'll get you to read one of my college football books [crosstalk 00:32:45]
Tom: Nah, nah. Not gonna happen, Monte. I wouldn't understand a word of it. Just not gonna happen.
Monte: I love it.
Tom: And you also write for "Forbes." You [00:33:00.119] write for "Garden & Gun." You write for "The Drake." Any I missed there?
Monte: I mean, I have written for "The New York Times" and "The Wall Street Journal" and "Esquire," but these days, you know, it's mainly books, and then those three magazines.
Tom: Yeah. And it's great seeing a freelance writer that concentrates on the outdoor world, making a living at it. So, that's a testament to your abilities. And probably your diligence. [00:33:33.515] So, since you're such a great storyteller, what I wanted to do today is have you tell a story on the podcast. And you picked a great subject, and I'm gonna let you tell your story, and shut up.
Monte: Okay. All right. I like this format. It's kinda fun. So, the story I chose is the eighth story in the book. [00:34:00.085] It's chapter 8. And it's about the legendary guide, Steve Huff. And just give a little kind of pretext to it. I was assigned this story, I believe, in 2010, late winter of 2010. And I, you know, went down. I knew who Steve Huff was, of course, but I had no idea of the full sort of Steve Huff, you know, experience, and his full story.
Tom: Yep.
Monte: And, when [00:34:30.215] I got back, when I turned it in and, you know, my editors at "Garden & Gun" showed me the proof, they had changed my title. I'll get back to my original title a little later on, but they had changed it to "The Best Fishing Guide Alive," which was a better title, and, of course, a very accurate title. I mean, Steve is a total legend in the shallow water, saltwater flats game. So, that's sort of the pretext there.
So, for the story, I flew down to [00:35:00.045] Fort Myers, and I drove in the middle of the night to Everglades City, which is where Steve now lives. He lived in The Keys for a while. And spent the night in some terrible motel, and then met Steve for breakfast, and then we got in his truck and trailered his boat. And it's very cool how he kind of, where he launches his boat. He goes to Chokoloskee, which is an island that's connected to the Everglades City by a causeway. And Chokoloskee is actually a Native American midden. It's...which [00:35:30.005] is basically their...it was a Calusa trash dump. They would throw their oyster shells there, for thousands of years, and actually created an island. I mean, there are houses there, and the grass, and, you know, earth and all stuff like that. So, it's very cool. But the coolest part is that we launched out of his great friend's boat ramp, and his great friend is Ted Juracsik, who, for those who don't know, is the founder and owner of the Tibor reel company, and a real kind of American success [00:36:00.465] story. He was a Hungarian immigrant, has a great story. So, anyway. So, that's always really, really fun.
So, I start the story kind of there. I don't mention it's Ted Juracsik's dock, but...or, boat ramp. But I start with Steve and I in the boat, pulling out of the sort of no-wake zone there, and then he, you know, jams it down, and we, nose goes up and we start coming down on plane, and he does... It's so cool. He does, like, basically an S-turn. And you look back, and you can't [00:36:30.150] see the few houses that are on Chokoloskee. In fact, you can't see anything that resembles civilization. It's just this incredible matrix of, you know, mangroves, and moving water and sky, which I've always loved about the Everglades. You have this almost immediate sense of being out in the middle of nowhere. And, you know, as we're going out, you know, over the whine of the engine, at one point, Steve lifts up his bandana, and he turns to me and he says, "Do you feel that?" And I said, "What? Feel what?" He goes, "Do you feel that?" I said, "What?" [00:37:00.320] He goes, "We're free." And then, boom. We're kind of off.
And then, in the story, I, at that point, I give a little kind of background on who this guy is. And at this point, he was 65. I believe he turns 80 at the end of this year, so this was a while ago when I did this story. And at that point, he'd been a fishing guy for 43 of his 65 years. First in the Florida Keys, I mentioned, and then in Everglades City. He moved to Everglades City in 1996 with his wife, Patty. [00:37:30.599] And, you know, I go into a little bit about his renown as a, you know, a skinny saltwater flats guide, for tarpon, for bonefish, for permit, for snook. I mean, he has countless world records. He's a member of the International Gamefish Association's Hall of Fame, which is, to some people, sort of the sport's Cooperstown. And then I called Andy Hill, of course, called a bunch of people to kinda get quotes, and do some research on Steve. But Andy called Steve, for the [00:38:00.070] story, he called him "bar none, the best tarpon guide alive, the best there was, and the best there will ever ever be." And then I got a quote here from Marshall Cutchin, who was the MidCurrent founder, and was a former Keys guide as well, and he said... He went even further than Andy did. He said, he called Steve "the best guide who's ever lived, period." But of course, you know, just this kind of... Steve is very, very humble, you know, guy. Doesn't like a lot [00:38:30.090] of pomp and circumstance. Not a great...doesn't stand for a lot of BS, so he's pretty...he does not like this kind of talk. That's for sure. And so, you know, I asked Steve at one point, I said, you know, "What is it...what does this all boil down to? Why do you like to guide or whatever?" And his quote in the story was, it was all pretty simple. He just said, "I'm just a fishing guide. My job is to make an angler's dream come true," which I've, that's such a, to me, such a great description. That's kind of the, exactly the kind of fishing guide that you want.
Tom: Yeah. [00:39:00.199] Yeah.
Monte: And so, my original title for this story was "The Dream Maker." Which, I mean, I like that one too, but I guess theirs was a little bit better. And then I talk about, you know, a little bit about his own dreams. I mean, we think, you know, we, it's not necessarily a completely selfless vocation, because, you know, he loves the rush of being out on the water every day, of trying to figure out that kind of puzzle presented by the tides, the winds, the clouds, the fish, and the ability of the angler he [00:39:30.019] has that day. And then, of course, there's the climax, which is that kind of final puzzle piece, which is the hooking and landing of the guided angler's target fish. And that's a rush that Steve has just never been able to live without.
So, then, in the story, I go kinda, like, you know, okay, who is this guy? Like, what's his background, kind of thing. And he was born and raised in Miami, which, back then, you know, Chico Fernandez has talked about this a lot too. This is, you know, back in the '60s, in [00:40:00.090] Miami. It was kind of a small town. There just wasn't much growth. Obviously, the city center had some buildings, but if you lived just a little bit out of the city center, you know, you just had lawns and canals, and the Everglades were kind of encroaching on the city. So, he talked a lot about that.
And then he talks about his father. And when he was 10, when Steve was 10, his father left the family. And Steve had never talked to him, never saw him again after that. Steve [00:40:30.170] has a rather, a sort of rough quote about him. He called, he says, "He was an alcoholic and a gambler. He probably died in a ditch somewhere." He was very sort of unsentimental about that part. But just, as it happens, the day before his father left for good, he gave Steve a spinning rod, which was the first piece of tackle that Steve had ever owned. And, you know, with [00:41:00.110] that rod, unbeknownst to his father, really, he provided his son with the first tool for kind of what would become his life's abiding passion. You know, Steve took that rod, cast into one of those canals, and he caught a 2-pound snook. And his quote was, "That was it. I was done." And so, like Chico, and some of those guys you talk to back in Miami back in the day, he would, you know, get on his bike, attach his rod somehow to his bike, and ride around to backyards and canals, and [00:41:30.130] just catch snook and baby tarpon and all this kinda cool stuff. And he told me about this one story about when he, one time, sneaked down a manhole that was in the middle of a causeway bridge, and he cast a lure while kind of hanging off a ladder. And he caught a 27-pound snook. Which is just gigantic.
Tom: Yeah.
Monte: I mean, kind of mind-blowingly gigantic.
Tom: Yeah.
Monte: And I think it...I know that to this day... And it's his largest that he's ever caught, which is amazing...
Tom: Wow.
Monte: ... [00:42:00.005] because snooker is a favorite fish. And when he ever just goes fishing by himself or with good buddies or whatever, they always fish for snook, so...
Tom: Uh-huh. Wow.
Monte: And then he says, you know, at that point, he knew that he would be a guide, someday. He went to the University of Miami. He studied biology. He graduated. He tells his mother about his career plans, and she is just livid with him. As Steve says, "She told me that fishing guides were a bunch of drunks and bums, and I would never amount to anything." [00:42:30.614] There was probably one half of that sentence is probably partially true, and the second half is completely wrong. But she still cosigned a bank loan, to give him his boat, then he moved down to Keys. This is 1968. Takes out his first client. He talks about sometimes first, you know, five or six clients. Now, he just, you know, had no clue... He says, "I had no clue what I was doing. I didn't even know what I didn't know," and he, you know, called them poor bastards, because he just was out there, you know, going around in circles, kinda deal. But [00:43:00.769] the thing, the probably one of the most abiding characteristics of Steve is his determination.
So, you know, it didn't take too long for him to really figure it out. He would pole for miles. It didn't matter how much wind was in his face. Marshall Cutchin actually called him the best poler he's ever seen, which is quite the compliment for Marshall, who [crosstalk 00:43:23] very good guy in his own right.
Tom: Yeah.
Monte: You know, Steve would scout and discover new spots. He tied all of his [00:43:30.110] own flies. He designed his own boats. He invented new fishing knots, including the Huffnagle, which is still used a lot by tarpon fishermen. And he would stay out longer than anyone else, you know, often making them run back to the dock in complete darkness. And I've had the pleasure, just as an aside here, I've had the pleasure of fishing with Steve for, like, the last 15 years, and, you know, until a couple years ago. And we'd probably fish till 7:00 or 07:30 at night. So it would almost be like an 11 or 12-hour day out there, [00:44:00.000] which was just absolutely crazy. And he was just, you know, he just kinda never gives up. And he was always known for, you know, he would guide clients in those big tarpon tournaments down there, the Gold Cup and the [inaudible 00:44:12] all that sort of stuff. And he was always known for just taking off on the dock, and running for an hour and a half or two hours just to get to somewhere where, some hidden secret spot, which, of course, there are no secrets there now, but one that only he knew about.
And, you know, [00:44:30.019] he, it didn't take him very long, but within a couple years, you know, people who fished with him once never wanted to leave him. I interviewed a lot of his former, or his clients, current clients. One of them is Carl Hiaasen, who talked about Steve being so intense that he "expects you to match that intensity," and that it makes you a better angler. There was a guy named Bill Hassett, who, at this point, 2010, 2011, who had fished with Steve for 37 years. It was [00:45:00.010] Lenny Berg who at this point in the story, who's a ophthalmologist who'd fished with him for 35 years.
Tom: Wow.
Monte: So, people would, you know, would get him as a guide, and they just wouldn't let go. In fact, they tend to get kinda greedy. Steve was, of course, Del Brown's guide for many years. Del Brown, for those who don't know, is, you know, sort of the Jack Nicholas of permit fishing. I mean, he's, I think he's caught 500... He caught 500-plus permit during his career. He's [00:45:30.409] known as the... And he owns the world record for the biggest permit ever caught on a fly rod. But Del once booked Steve for 55 days one year, straight days, to fish for permit. Tom Evans, who is probably the greatest big tarpon angler of all time, and was one of the main characters in my book, "Lords of the Fly," once booked Steve from March 1st to June 15th. And, you know, Steve liked to keep... At some point, his queries started to [00:46:00.170] keep, you know, just about 12 people or so, or 12 clients or so. And he was very loyal to them. He had a... George H.W. Bush called one time, and asked if Steve could take him out, and he said no, because he already had one of his regulars booked. And this is my favorite story. He had a client once he took out for, like, four days, and the guy had such a great time that, after the trip, he gave Steve a [00:46:30.139] condominium as a tip. I've actually seen the condominium. It's right there in Chokoloskee, but it's so funny that he gave him that.
And then he talks about, you know, the sort of relationship you develop with your clients, especially if you're fishing for, you know, that many years. And, you know, when you're in that small boat, he says, you know, "When you're in a small boat together for 10 to 12 hours a day, you quickly get past the small talk. You laugh and you cry together. [00:47:00.730] And he had one client who constantly complained about his wife for years and years and years. And just, one day on the water, Steve was just trying to, hoping to change the subject, and he kinda bluntly told the guy. He said, "Danny, you should just divorce her." And, Steve said the man called back a week later and told him that he had filed divorce papers [crosstalk 00:47:19] Steve's quote was... "I said, you've gotta be shitting me."
Tom: The power of a guide's opinion.
Monte: [crosstalk 00:47:28] I know, really. It's funny [00:47:30.019] because guides are, they're a lot like football coaches in a weird way. I mean, they're motivators. They're psychologists. You know, they're teachers, educators. I mean, they fill so many different roles, and, yeah, I guess, sometimes I think they're therapists, you know, and [crosstalk 00:47:45]
Tom: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Absolutely.
Monte: The good ones are, anyway.
Tom: Yep.
Monte: And then, you know, I talk about, so, you know, he's got, established, and he's got all these great relationships, but sometimes, you know, as with [inaudible 00:47:57] family and with any other intense relationships, [00:48:00.059] complications arise. In the piece, I wrote about a client that he didn't...that he fired, basically. And his quote was, "One day, I just told the guy that he was a selfish prick." And it turned out later, I found out more, and when I was [inaudible 00:48:16] "Lords of the Fly" who that client was. It was actually Tom Evans. Then I kind of fleshed out that story there.
And then he had kind of a sad ending with Del Brown. Del Brown still actually, holds, I [00:48:30.039] think, 10 permit records or something like that. I mean, it's just kind of the untouchable GOAT of permit fishing. And, you know, those two would fish together for...since 1980. So, they fish from 1980 to 2001. They were kind of the perfect pair on the water. They matched the intensity, they matched the drive, but there was an afternoon in 2001 when Del Brown, at this point, was 83 years old, and Steve had pulled about an hour into about a 30-mile-an-hour or 25-mile-an-hour [00:49:00.090] wind, to get to the spot where he knew permit would be crossing this flat. And he, you know, did all that work. He waited for... He got there, you know, sort of stake out the boat, held it there, and he waited for Del to get up and, you know, get ready. And Del just put his rod down instead, and told Steve that he didn't feel good, that he wanted to go in. And Steve tells this sort of heartbreaking story about, you know, running the boat in, and just being wracked with heaving sobs, and that the doc [00:49:31.414] telling Del Brown that, you know, through tears, that he couldn't fish with him anymore. Which sounds cruel, but Steve, there's a quote after that. He says, "It was really my problem. Del was getting older, and I just didn't want to admit it, and it broke my heart." And Del actually died two years after that.
And then, as I do, I love to ask, you know, people who died and people who spent a lot of time in the water, [inaudible 00:49:55] like, it's fun to ask, like, any strange moments they've seen.
Tom: Yeah.
Monte: [00:50:00.275] Steve had a lot.
Tom: I bet you did.
Monte: So, tarpon do all kinds of cool things when you're on the water with them. I mean, they roll, in which they're gulping air. And so it's always exciting to see that kind of crazy things they do. And the other thing they do, of course, is they just free jump sometimes. Sometimes they're spooked by a, [inaudible 00:50:22] they've been sleeping or something like that, and then spooked by a shark or a manta ray or...and they just jump straight up into the air. [00:50:30.065] And so, Steve told a story about this one time he was fishing with this woman, and an unhooked 100-pound tarpon just jumped into the air, onto the boat, and hit her right, squarely in the chest. And she wore a flak jacket the next year, as a kind of a gag.
And then, maybe most famously, and I actually led "Lords of the Fly" with this anecdote, once I kinda reported out a little bit more, but he was fishing with Tom Evans. They were, he and Tom [00:51:00.085] Evans were very early to the Homosassa thing, and oftentimes, the only boat, in those early days, in the late '70s, on the water there. And they were going after the world record, and Tom, they'd been eating terrible food or whatever. And Tom suddenly had to use the bathroom one time. So, Steve stepped off the poling platform, went up to the bow to try to get as far away as he could, and Tom hung off the back there. And as they was there, a group of three tarpon came swimming by, and Tom insisted that Steve take a cast for him. And Steve said, "No, no, no. I'm a guide. I can't do that. I can't do that." And [00:51:30.635] he didn't pick up the rod. But then, about two minutes later, as Tom was still hanging off the back, a pair of, another pair of tarpon, or a pair of tarpon this time, came by. And Tom said, I insist that you make a cast for him. So Steve did. Hooked the bigger of the two. And it turned out to be a 186-pound tarpon, which I believe at that point was 13 pounds over the standing world record, which is not an incremental leap. That's a kind of a quantum leap.
Tom: Wow.
Monte: But he never submitted it to the IGFA, [00:52:00.364] because he knew that Tom wanted this record so badly, and he also thought it was kind of a bad look to have a guide do it. And as it turns out, about a week later, Tom did land a 177-pound tarpon, which did become the world record. But it always bothered Tom that he knew there was one bigger out there. He eventually got that record too, but...
And then he talks about what he called the strangest thing that happened to him on a boat. There was a guy named Everett Watkins, who flew in from California the night before. He was there to fish [00:52:30.034] with a friend who'd set up a trip with Steve. And Watkins is just kind of a little bit obese, and, you know, was sort of laboring a little bit that morning, I guess, from jet lag. And he hooked a 125-pound tarpon on one of his first casts, but he played it, the fish, very, very slowly, sort of as if he were in a trance. And Steve's quote is, "I told him he needed to bear down on the fish, because there are only two things that could happen. He would land the fish or he would lose it. Little did I [00:53:00.000] know there was actually a third scenario." So, the fish was still on, and then Watkins just suddenly collapsed face first on the bow. And Huff immediately broke off the fish and ran back to dock, at full speed. But Watkins was basically, you know, and they were met by an ambulance, but Watkins was basically dead. And it turned out that he had an aortic rupture, and was most likely dead before he even hit the bow there. But that incident spawned some very, some pretty horrible jokes. [00:53:30.440] People would tell Steve, "Damn, man. People are really dying to fish with you [crosstalk 00:53:33]" And another guy had asked him why he broke the fish off. So, yeah, that's...that spawned some pretty bad ones.
And then the story I kind of go into, you know, my day on the water with him. We weren't tarpon fishing. It was, like I said, it was in the wintertime, which is not a great time to tarpon fish down there, but we were snook fishing, which, again, is his favorite type of fishing. And it was my first time that deep in the Everglades there on the western [00:54:00.389] side, which are so cool. That's what your old friend Peter Matthiessen, you know what he used to call it? Or what he called it? [crosstalk 00:54:10]
Tom: Shadow country?
Monte: [crosstalk 00:54:12] call it the shadow country. Yeah.
Tom: Yeah. That's the title of his award-winning book.
Monte: His what?
Tom: That's the title of his award-winning book, right?
Monte: Correct. Correct, yeah.
Tom: The three [crosstalk 00:54:24] Watson stories.
Monte: Such a cool book, and such a cool [00:54:30.090] title there. So, you know, we, Steve and I fished together. He, you know, was in the back, kind of telling me what to do, and I'm having a little bit of trouble for a little while, kind of, with my cast, not exactly putting it where I want to be, and he gives me this little tip about kind of holding my back cast a little bit longer, and, you know, that works like a charm. And just as an aside here, I was, you know, [00:55:00.559] someone read through the book, like, "Wow. You really fished with, or been around a lot of high-profile anglers." And I thought about this. I thought about that I should have...I should, by all rights and means, have the greatest fly cast in the world, because I've been taught, by how to cast, by Lefty, Cray, Andy Mills, Steve Huff, Nathaniel Linville, and you. And [crosstalk 00:55:23] I'm still [crosstalk 00:55:24]
Tom: You haven't learned anything from me. You haven't learned anything from me, Monte.
Monte: I still [crosstalk 00:55:26] So, still remain the troubled, [00:55:30.239] caster than I am, but I have fun. So, you know, we start, in the story, we start getting some takes. We're not catching huge fish. We're catching, like, 2 to 5-pound snook or whatever. And then, as I often do, I love... You know, one of the reasons I love fishing trips, you know, maybe when I come, or go to Nova Scotia with my uncle, and Topher Brown, or whatever, in Abaco with some friends and stuff like that, is it gives you kind of license to kinda dork out and talk about things that you would probably never [00:56:00.280] talk about in front of other people. You know, when we come salmon fishing, we will talk about, you know, the efficacy of some flies, and talk about leader length and all that sort of stuff. And I love asking people about that if they seem to enjoy that as well. And so I asked Steve at one point what he thought about different fish, and if he, if they thought they had different personalities. And he said they sure did. They sure do. He says tarpon seem almost human, because they're so big. [00:56:30.434] And his quote was, "You can see their actual gestures, and can tell if they're happy or agitated, and I've actually seen them yawn and stretch." And he calls fishing for them like heroin. And of course, he's one of the foremost dealers of that drug.
Tom: Yeah.
Monte: He calls bonefish the most honest fish.
Tom: Mm-hmm. His quote is if you do everything right, with the cast and the manipulation of the fly, they will reward you, and eat it. [00:57:00.585] Permit, on the other hand, are what he calls a dishonest fish. He says you can do everything exactly right, and they will still screw you. And he describes snook as pickpockets. Says they're sinister. They are always around, but you rarely see them. Then they sneak up on you and strike the fly so savagely. And he's also made, you know, which I think maybe we all do, but he has, you know, more people to kinda do this with. He's kinda made a case study on the nature of [00:57:30.000] nature of anglers.
Tom: Mm-hmm.
Monte: He didn't give me any names, but he told me about people that could cast a country mile, and, you know, land a fly on a dime, but couldn't catch a fish in an aquarium, is the way he put it. And then he's seen others who have really ugly casts and manage to catch everything they see. And his quote was, "Some people just have a fish sense. I don't care what someone's cast looked like. I'd rather have a person who has some sort of sense of where the fly should be, and how to manipulate it and [00:58:00.000] talk the fish to the fly," which I've always loved. I do think, you know, one sort of overlooked thing about fly fishing that we don't necessarily always think about, but is we are communicating. Or we're trying to communicate, anyway. You know, the fly is a representation of something, and we're trying to, you know, through this sort of quasi art, try to communicate with another species.
Tom: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Monte: And then, you know, we talk about a little bit about Steve. Steve's a voracious reader. He loves to talk about books. [00:58:30.045] You know, and then I realized at one point in the story that, you know, we've just been chatting and chatting and chatting, and I kinda glanced back at him, and I realized that, though I'm sort of getting lost sometimes in the chatter, he's never once taken his eyes off the water, scanning the water the whole time, looking for any kind of discrepancy there that might be a fish. And then at one point, he sees a dark mangrove stump near the water, and tells me to cast right around it, and says, "I think I see something," and I cast. I didn't see anything. But I cast that way anyway. [00:59:00.315] I took two strips and boom, you know, fly is just, it's just brutally attacked. And snook are so cool because they [inaudible 00:59:07] so many of the better, or the best traits of other fish. I mean, they're, they lay up like tarpon. This snook I hooked jumped all over the place like a tarpon. It was really cool. And, you know, me being a snook rookie, or a snookie, as they call them, I didn't know what was going on. I kinda got, the fish made his one big run, and I reeled it in. I got it really close to the boat, and I'm thinking to myself, "Hey, [00:59:30.125] I got this thing." And Steve's like, "Just hold on a second. It's gonna go again." And, you know, believe it or not, it did. It went on a run even stronger than the first one, but eventually got it back in. It was about eight pounds, which was my, still my biggest snook ever. You know, not a huge, not a bad snook, but not a huge snook, especially to guys like Steve, but... And then, you know, I missed another fish. We'll skip over that part. [inaudible 00:59:56]
And then, you know, the [01:00:00.135] wind picks up. I've gotta go. So we sort of start to head in. And then I talked a little bit the story about, you know, how guiding is really mentally and physically very taxing vocation. You know, a lot of these saltwater flats guides, I mean, some of them, the better ones, last for a long time, but some, you know, a lot of them are, like, kinda like NFL running backs. Their shelf life is, you know, 3 to 5 years or something like that.
Tom: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Monte: But Steve has had this incredible stamina. I mean, he's, you know, in his younger days, he once went, [01:00:30.425] five straight months every day on the water, without a break.
Tom: Oh, wow.
Monte: And you can, you know, it's been, overall, very good for him. You stay in great shape. You can...but the only way you can tell the sort of, or see the physical taxation is on his hands. His fingernails are almost all scratched white and all gnarled, and his palms are all puffy, and he's got nicks and cuts, and all kinds of, you know, sunspots on them and stuff like that. But that's literally the only way you could tell that he, you know, he's out there, or been out there for so [01:01:00.105] long. And, you know, he's so funny about the way that many of us, not all of us, but spend our days. He would always laugh that, you know, he doesn't own a computer. And his quote was, "It's appalling to me that people spend a beautiful day indoors, staring at a glass screen." Guilty as charged here.
Tom: Yeah. Me too.
Monte: But at this point, you know, he was running 9 miles a week. He was, he'd become an avid [01:01:30.284] bicyclist. I think for his first big ride, he and his wife Patty rode from Everglades City out to Astoria, Oregon.
Tom: Oh, my god.
Monte: Just taking back roads, and it's quite the adventure. And they weren't planning on this, but they loved it so much that they hopped on their bikes and rode a different route all the way home.
Tom: Oh, wow.
Monte: And then I kinda end the story, you know, with, like, talking about even with the other things he does, the biking and the running, stuff like that. He still has a very hard time spending more than just a few days [01:02:00.715] off the water. You know, this sort of passion, his primary passion is bringing people into his world of these mangroves and tides and fish, and then fulfilling their dreams. And the end quote to the whole story is, "I love what I do." And that's it.
Tom: Hmm. Yeah. I mean, I was gonna ask you why you think he is considered the greatest guide to [01:02:30.014] ever lived, and I think you pretty much answered that. His passion and his energy and his intenseness.
Monte: Yep. And I just, you know, he's just... so, now, he, I mean, I talked early in the story. He talked about anglers having a fish sense, but he has this incredible sense. I mean, there's never a time once when we're in a spot... You can, you know, he's often working out where, if that spot's not kinda working out, you can kinda see the machinations going through his head. But never once have I doubted him when he said, "Let's move." You know?
Tom: Yeah. Yeah.
Monte: [01:03:00.269] And go to a new spot. And, you know, more often than not, I mean, the last couple years have been, when I've fished Everglades, have not been as...the conditions have gotten more difficult, and there are more anglers down there. So it's definitely, like, a different place than it was, say, five years ago. But, you know, I'll be damned, even on the muddiest, windiest days, I'm gonna get my shots. You know? I don't cash them in all the time, for sure, but he's gonna get me in front of a fish at some point, or fish plural. [01:03:30.190] So, that's just incredible. And, you know, he's almost 80, and he's still doing it. It's incredible.
Tom: Wow. I hope I'm still fishing when I'm 80, much less working that hard. Well, there's a lot to be said for that outdoor life, I guess, and not being in front of a computer screen. That's probably his secret to his longevity and his energy, is not having to sit in front of a computer.
Monte: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. Yeah. We probably should all pledge to do a [01:04:00.019] little less of that and a little more of just being outdoors, and [crosstalk 01:04:03]
Tom: Well, I try pretty hard.
Monte: Yeah. You're pretty good at it.
Tom: Yeah. I am pretty good at it.
Monte: [crosstalk 01:04:08] I'm not gonna sell myself short here. I'm pretty good at it.
Tom: Yeah. Nobody's gonna feel sorry for you and me. We prioritize things in our life, right. As Steve did.
Monte: That's true. That's true. It's true.
Tom: All right, Monte.
Monte: [crosstalk 01:04:24] the cool thing, too, I [crosstalk 01:04:25]
Tom: Oh, sorry.
Monte: If you don't... If you got one more minute, I [crosstalk 01:04:27]
Tom: We got lots of time. Go ahead.
Monte: Okay. [01:04:30.250] This story was a, actually, kind of important story in my life, for a number of reasons. One, I got an essay out of it as well, because I went down, a year later, and I got my first tarpon with Steve. So I got one of my favorite essays I've ever written about catching that tarpon. And then, I, "Garden & Gun" asked me to do a story on Carl Hiaasen. And I remember, you know, finally getting through to Hiaasen through the publicist [inaudible 01:04:59] getting him on [01:05:00.000] the phone. He said, "You know, I'd love to do it, but there's...I'll do it only under one condition, that we go fish with my guide, Steve Huff." And then that was very much a Brer Rabbit moment for me. I said, "Sure. Throw me in that briar patch."
And then, you know, in a direct way, really, not even an indirect way, a direct way, it led to "Lords of the Fly." I mean, Steve was very much there in the Homosassa scene, especially early on, with Tom Evans. And, you know, he would, when we would fish together, he would frequently [01:05:30.210] talk about those days, and that kind of is what got my interest piqued in the whole thing in the first place. So, you know, it's kind of a... And not to mention the friendship that I have with him now is valuable as anything else, so...
Tom: Yeah.
Monte: If not more so. So, you know, it's been a, it's kind of a, in my little world, it's been kind of a big story for me.
Tom: I remember I had a day with Steve once, and what impressed me was that... And I didn't impress him much. That's for sure. But what impressed [01:06:00.369] me about him was that we started at dawn, and I think the sun was setting, or even set when we got done. And that's just not how fishing is done in The Keys. This was still when he was still in The Keys, and, I remember...
Monte: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's...
Tom: I remember...
Monte: Most guys are back at the Lorelei at 3:30 [crosstalk 01:06:19]
Tom: Yeah, right. Yeah. And I remember missing a couple bonefish, because I trout set. And he kept reminding me to [01:06:30.204] strip set, strip set, strip set, you know. And then another bonefish took, and I just reared back as hard as I could with a strip set, and popped the bonefish off. And I said, "There. Is that how you do it?" And he just turned away and chuckled, and didn't say anything. You know?
Monte: Oh, it's awesome. That's awesome.
Tom: But, yeah, we went, I mean, remember, we went everywhere that day. We went, you know, down for redfish down south, and we looked for [01:07:00.235] tarpon, and we threw to a couple permit, and we had bonefish. It was, you know, he...
Monte: Right.
Tom: He just... And you could tell he loved being on the water every minute, as you said. And there was no punch clock.
Monte: Yep. For sure. For sure.
Tom: So, to everyone listening, if you wanna get a day with Steve Huff, we're sorry. You're gonna have to book a day with one of [01:07:30.054] his proteges. Or his son, Dustin. Does Dustin, does he, is he fully booked now these days?
Monte: Yeah. But, you know, you could try Dustin. And then, actually, his older son, Chad, is also a very well-respected guy now too in the in The Keys as well, so...
Tom: Uh-huh. Okay.
Monte: Definitely worth going with those guys. I've fished with Chad. Great guy. So, you know, definitely worth it.
Tom: Yeah. Yeah. All right, Monte. [01:08:00.375] Well, I wanna thank you for taking the time to relate that story.
Monte: Of course.
Tom: You are a great storyteller. You tell me that you're not...you're better in writing than you are in person, but I've seen you speak, and I know that you're also pretty good on your feet, so...
Monte: Nice of you to say. I like, what I love about writing is the revision.
Tom: Yeah.
Monte: I'm able to revise and revise and revise. I can't do that when I'm speaking, but...
Tom: Well, you can. You know, if you think of something else, [01:08:30.225] call me, and we'll edit it in.
Monte: Okay. Sounds good.
Tom: Well...
Monte: When are we fishing together again?
Tom: Next time you come up here.
Monte: All right. Sounds good.
Tom: Or I'll come down there and fish your secret spot in New York City, maybe. I've never done that. I'd love to do it.
Monte: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tom: And we should, full disclosure, this is a very practiced podcast, because this is the second time we did it. My podcast machine corrupted the [01:09:00.005] file. So, Monte, you did really good the second time around.
Monte: Well, you gave me a chance to revise. I appreciate it.
Tom: Yeah. See? And I'm sorry about that. It happens once in a while.
Monte: I'm good with one revision, though.
Tom: Okay. All right. We won't do it again. If this file's corrupted, I'm just gonna give up on it.
Monte: All right.
Tom: And so, anyways, we've been talking to Monte Burke. I would highly recommend his latest book, "Rivers Always Run to the Sea." It's available [01:09:30.864] anywhere you buy your books. Hopefully, an independent bookseller, but online as well. And it's full of great stories like the one you just heard. So, thank you, Monte.
Monte: Thank you for having me.
Tom: All right.
Monte: [crosstalk 01:09:45] talk to you.
Tom: I will talk to you soon.
Monte: All right. Take care.
Tom: Thanks. Bye.
Announcer: Thanks for listening to the "Orvis Fly Fishing Podcast," with Tom Rosenbauer. You can be a part of the show. Have a question or a comment? Send it to us at