Don't Make These 6 Mistakes in Stillwater Trout Fishing, with Joe Garza
Podcast Transcript:
Well, my guest today is Joe Garza and Joe is with is the the sole proprietor, I think, of JAG Fly Fishing.
Joe Garza (00:15) Yeah, JAG fly fishing is just my initials.
Tom Rosenbauer (00:17) Jag fly. So
you say Jag, you don't say J. G. Okay. Okay. Okay. And ⁓ Joe is a Joe is a guide in California. What part of California do you focus on Joe?
Joe Garza (00:20) Yeah, I say JAG. Joseph Antonio Garza.
Northern California, ⁓ north of Sacramento. Do you want a list of my rivers and lakes? So I do the Lower Yuba, the Lower Feather, the Lower Sacramento, Eagle Lake and Lake Alminor. And I just recently started doing bass on Lake Orville.
Tom Rosenbauer (00:34) Okay.
⁓ yeah, yeah, sure. Why not?
Cool, cool. So large mouth or small mouth bass? Spotted bass. Spotted and large. So they've transplanted spotted bass out there.
Joe Garza (00:56) Spotted and large mouth. Yes,
Yes sir, it's actually a pretty good fisher.
Tom Rosenbauer (01:06) Wow, interesting. That's cool. ⁓ Okay, but today today we're going to talk about still water trout because I haven't done I haven't done a still water trout episode in a while. And, and I'm terrible at it. So I need to have I need to have I need to hang out with people like you and Phil Rowley to ⁓ show me how to do it because I'm just not very good at it. So I'm hoping to learn lots of tips. ⁓
Joe Garza (01:22) I get that a lot.
Tom Rosenbauer (01:35) and I'm sure my listeners will as well today.
Joe Garza (01:38) Yeah, I was introduced to this by ⁓ Phil Rowley's method by a good friend of mine named Mark Antimarian, who's also another guide, but ⁓ he's the one that introduced me to it. And I kind of dove in head first, really changed ⁓ my game on the still water for sure. ⁓ And, you know, don't don't feel bad about the still water, Tom. It's it's a tough learning curve. Yeah.
Tom Rosenbauer (01:45) huh. huh.
rate.
It is. It's a lot easier on
moving water. You can make a lot more mistakes and get away with them, I think.
Joe Garza (02:06) Yeah, exactly. I mean, the
you know, we'll talk about it, but it's then moving water. ⁓ Everything moves pretty quick and the trout have a split second to decide if they want to eat or not and still water. They got a lot of time to size up your fly and your presentation and figure out if they want it.
Tom Rosenbauer (02:22) Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So you have you have six tips today, right?
Joe Garza (02:30) Yeah, six tips or common mistakes beginning anglers make when they come into still water fly fishing.
Tom Rosenbauer (02:37) that's right. We're gonna talk about six common mistakes. That's great. That's great, because I probably make all of them. So ⁓ yeah, so ⁓ let's say without further ado, let's start with number one, Joe.
Joe Garza (02:49) So the first one ⁓ I would say would be the wrong gear or setup. ⁓ For me, I usually have four rods rigged to go and ready to go on the boat. ⁓ And that's for whatever scenario might unfold throughout the day of fishing. For the Stillwater rods, I like a nine foot six inch or a 10 foot Orvis Recon six weight. ⁓ I know the...
Tom Rosenbauer (02:54) Mm-hmm.
Wow, wow.
Okay.
Okay.
Joe Garza (03:17) 10-foots are not out, ⁓ so you can get away with a 10-foot 5-weight in that recon series. The longer rods are going to help you with your casting and your mending, ⁓ your line management, and your hook setting. So the setups I run, the first one is going to be a rigged rod for indicator fishing. ⁓ With a level fluorocarbon leader, there's a lot of information out there.
Tom Rosenbauer (03:25) Okay.
Right?
Okay.
Okay.
Joe Garza (03:46) from Phil on that level fluorocarbon build. And ⁓ that's not going to be a tapered fluorocarbon either. It's just going to be straight fluorocarbon. That's what I do. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (03:58) All right, so all
of these rigs are on the same 10-foot, either 5- or 6-weight you're talking about? Okay, okay.
Joe Garza (04:04) Yes sir. I
like to keep it simple. I like to use one rod, one type of rod for all my style of fly fishing. Whether it be on the still water or whether it be down on the valley rivers.
Tom Rosenbauer (04:12) Right.
Okay,
but obviously you're a guide so you can have four rods rigged, for the, you know, someone who's going out on their own, they can just re-rig, right, with the same rod.
Joe Garza (04:29) They can re-rig with their own rod. just takes a little bit more time. You know, I have down here that if I were to choose two rods, I would go with the two, the indicator rod and an intermediate rod, simply because trout spend 80 to 90 % of their time feeding subsurface. And I like to fish one to three feet off the bottom of the lake. So.
Tom Rosenbauer (04:31) Yeah. Right. Yeah. OK.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay, okay.
Joe Garza (04:57) The next rod I would have rigged would be a dry fly rod with floating line with a 9 to 12 foot tapered monofilament leader. And then a rod rigged with intermediate sinking line, which for those that don't know, an intermediate sinking line is going to have a sink rate of 1 and a half to 2 inches per second. And that's going to have a 7 to 9 foot fluorocarbon tapered leader.
Tom Rosenbauer (05:07) Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Okay.
Joe Garza (05:25) And then I'd have one rod rigged with the full sink line three inches to four inches per second with, again, a seven to nine foot fluorocarbon tapered leader.
Tom Rosenbauer (05:37) Okay, so that's probably like a type three full sync.
Joe Garza (05:41) Type 3 or Type 4. Yeah, I generally don't go over that. I know Phil does at times, but I don't, not for my leaks. Yeah, so.
Tom Rosenbauer (05:42) Type three or four, okay. Got it. ⁓
We won't tell Phil. He
won't, he won't be watching this podcast, so we don't have to worry about it. We can make fun of Phil or do whatever we want here. Yeah. No, Phil's a wonderful guy.
Joe Garza (05:56) Probably not.
⁓ no, I wouldn't do that. I like him.
Yes, he is. but yeah, if you you have only have one rod, you could certainly get away with, you know, switching out. It's just going to take you some time to to make those changes between the leader rigs that you would use and the lines you would.
Tom Rosenbauer (06:17) Hey.
Yeah, and the line so
so you know maybe extra spools or extra reels would be a handy thing to do.
Joe Garza (06:31) Yeah, know people that use extra reels or extra spools and only use one wide rod and change them out if they're in float tubes and whatnot. It's just, it's easy for me because I'm in a boat and I've got all those stowed away. yeah, right. So, ⁓ and I generally don't fish heavier sinking lines just because I don't, if I'm going down that deep, I'm going to use an indicator. So.
Tom Rosenbauer (06:35) Yep, okay.
Okay.
Yeah, and you're a guide. People expect you to have all this stuff, Okay.
OK,
got it. ⁓
Joe Garza (07:01) So, you know, another, ⁓ the next thing ⁓ I would say would be a great tip for ⁓ people just coming into the still water fly fishing game ⁓ is knowing your main food source and the size of those food sources. Excuse me. This is, this is mistake number two. So.
Tom Rosenbauer (07:19) Is this mistake number two? Is this mistake number two? Okay, so not knowing the
food sources. Okay, got it.
Joe Garza (07:26) Yes, so not knowing your
food sources in the particular lake you're fishing. ⁓ Every still water is different. They have ⁓ different species here and there. But for my lakes, the two mountain lakes that I do a lot of this style fishing in, the size, the profile, the color of these food sources vary quite a bit. ⁓ Even among chironomids we have probably a good
Tom Rosenbauer (07:31) Yep. Okay.
Joe Garza (07:56) I don't know, thousand different type of chironomids in our water system. So with that being said, we have a very healthy ecosystem in my still water. So there's food sources that are going to be available year round and there's food sources that are going to be seasonable. So, you know,
Tom Rosenbauer (08:01) Wow.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Okay. Okay.
Joe Garza (08:26) You got pond smelt, they're available year round. ⁓ But the best time to fish those, they're still going to take an opportunity to eat a pond smelt throughout the year. But the best time when they're really keying on them is early spring and early fall. With the chironomids you know, those are year round. And as I said before, they vary in shape, sizes and color. So best time to fish those.
Tom Rosenbauer (08:43) Mm-hmm, okay.
Joe Garza (08:55) Even though they'll eat them year round is going to be spring, midsummer and early fall. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (09:01) All right. And chironomids
are midges, just in case people don't know that, but they're a little two-winged fly. They're a true fly. And we call them midges too.
Joe Garza (09:04) Mitches, yeah.
Yes, so my, my, um, my pond smelt, let's go back to the pond. So my pond smelt are generally going to run a size six or eight. Uh, for my chironomids, I only fish sizes tens and twelves. Um, yeah. And still water chironomids are significantly bigger. I, I, no, they're pretty big. Um,
Tom Rosenbauer (09:18) OK.
Whoa.
They're not so midgy in still water. Wow.
Joe Garza (09:41) I've got some good pictures of some sitting on the top of my finger and they're this ⁓ big from my first knuckle to my tip of my fingers. They're that big. your next ⁓ food source is going to be leeches and damsels. ⁓ These guys will fish year round. I always say anytime is a good time for a balanced leech.
Tom Rosenbauer (09:51) Mm. Wow.
Okay.
All right.
Joe Garza (10:10) And I run those in size eight, sometimes a size 10, but mostly a size eight. ⁓ And our balanced leech patterns under the indicator are tied as general attractors. So they're varying color variations throughout the pattern sometimes. And they mimic a lot of different food sources that are in our particular system. So ⁓ we have heck.
Tom Rosenbauer (10:35) Okay.
So you may want to imitate a leech that's,
you may want to have a leech that's the same color as the leeches, but you may want to have some different colors as attractors.
Joe Garza (10:47) Color variation, yeah. I have an olive leech that has ⁓ a rusty collar to it. That seems to do really well ⁓ throughout the year. And then I also have a black leeched or a bruised leech as Phil likes to call it, but that also has a brownish collar to it as well. So ⁓ with those, then you have the Hexagenia lumbata. We do have a hex hatch on
Tom Rosenbauer (10:49) Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. Okay.
All right. Okay.
Joe Garza (11:17) ⁓ both Eagle Lake and Lake Alminor. ⁓ I'm spending most of my time on Lake Alminor for that, but I'm running size ⁓ eights and sixes on those.
Tom Rosenbauer (11:27) So for people
who don't know Hexagenia, it is a huge mayfly. It's the largest mayfly actually in North America. And they're quite common in lakes. So you may see these throughout the country from New England in the Midwest and all the way to the Western United, all the way to California. So, okay.
Joe Garza (11:35) Yes, sir.
Yes they are. They-
Yeah, we have ⁓ several lakes here in Northern California that have that hatch and once in a while we see them hatching in the lower Sacramento River as well. But ⁓ Fall River up here is a big staple blue ribbon fishery that has a hex hatch in early summer as well as Lake Almanore and Eagle Lake. believe you just have Mike Pease on.
Tom Rosenbauer (11:55) Hmm.
Okay. Okay.
Okay.
Joe Garza (12:13) And he has a hex hatch on Lake Davis that he fishes. So Mike's a good friend of mine too. you know, then we have Callibaetis spring and fall. usually run a size 16 or 18 on those, both nymphs and leeches. And then we have Caddis that hatch.
Tom Rosenbauer (12:17) Okay.
Uh-huh.
Okay, just
so people know, again, Callibaetis is another mayfly, smaller, kind of speckled, kind of looks like an Adams.
Joe Garza (12:40) There's another Mayfly.
Yeah,
the thing about the Callibaetis is they have these big googly eyes on their head. So they look different than a typical mayfly. The Caddis is a summertime into fall hatch. Those guys run anywhere from size 14 to 16, both nymphs and...
Tom Rosenbauer (12:52) huh. Okay.
Yeah, OK.
Joe Garza (13:14) dries. You have Daphnia in both of our or most of our lakes around here. That's good year round. ⁓ Those are cotton candy to trout. They break off of the they pop off of the weeds and they float through the water column and clusters that are about the size of a dime and trout just cruise and sip those guys up.
Tom Rosenbauer (13:15) Okay.
you
Is that where you fish the blob? I've never fished a blob, but it's coming.
Joe Garza (13:40) the blob. Yes. It just is
It's just as big ball as chenille with the with a
little bit of bitty beat on it that looks like nothing but trout love it
Tom Rosenbauer (13:54) Yeah. Okay. ⁓
Joe Garza (13:58) And that's what I'm going to fish about a size 12 on those. ⁓ And then you have crawdads. They're in the system year round, but ⁓ the best time I find to fish those is February through April for smallies ⁓ on my lakes, Lake Almanor especially. ⁓ And once in a while you can pick up a big brown cruising those areas looking for the crawdads as well.
Tom Rosenbauer (14:02) Mm-hmm. Okay.
Mm hmm. Okay.
Okay.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, they like they like crayfish
Joe Garza (14:28) So, but knowing the correct size of these food sources will will increase your success on the lakes. I often see people using a fly that's either too big or too small. Remember, like I said earlier, the fish in the still water, they have a lot of time to size up your fly and decide if they're going to eat it. I cheat on the lakes. have ⁓ I have
Tom Rosenbauer (14:42) Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Joe Garza (14:57) fancy electronics on my boat that tell that I can see where the fish are on the water column. I can see how they're feeding. ⁓ And so, you know, that tells me when we get to a certain area how we're going to start fishing. So say if they're suspended on the bottom, we're going to fish under an indicator deep or run a sinking line, depending on how deep that water is. If they're if they're mid column.
Tom Rosenbauer (15:05) ⁓
Okay.
Right.
Joe Garza (15:23) we're going to probably throw an intermediate line or suspend under an indicator. And obviously, the obvious one is if they're on the surface, then we're going to throw dries and emerges on top. But.
Tom Rosenbauer (15:28) Okay.
So
Joe, knowing the food is important, right? Knowing the food on a lake, and it's gonna vary depending on where you are, and every lake is probably a little bit different, right? So how does someone who doesn't know what foods are on a lake, how do they figure it out?
Joe Garza (15:50) Every lake's different. ⁓ No two lakes are the same.
So there's a couple of things you can do. one is ⁓ rub elbows to local fly shop and spend a little money. ⁓ I've found in the past before I was a guide that if you go to a fly shop and you spend a little money, they're more willing to share information with you than if you just go in and say, hey, where should I go fish?
Tom Rosenbauer (16:05) Okay.
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah, kind of makes sense.
They're kind of, they kind of need to make a living.
Joe Garza (16:36) ⁓
Second is hire a guide. ⁓ Have them take you out and you're going to learn more in eight hours with a guide than you probably would an entire year on your own. I've had people tell me that frequently. I never knew there were fish this big here or I never knew you had ⁓ these type of bugs here and where the fish would eat them at. I had no clue.
Tom Rosenbauer (16:50) Yeah.
Joe Garza (17:04) ⁓ So that's a pretty common statement I get after a day's trip. And then another one is that you can watch the hatches, ⁓ but that doesn't quite give you an idea. It gives you an idea of what bugs to throw, but it doesn't give you an idea of what color or what size to throw subsurface. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (17:08) Okay, yeah.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (17:34) ⁓ but then you can try to catch a fish on your own and then, ⁓ occasionally I'll pump a fish's stomach contents to see what it's actually been eating at that particular time. And then I'll put that in a, a, a clear water bottle and I'll kind of shake it around and look to see what I see in there. And what I see the most of in that water bottle, I'm going to go to my fly box and find something that matches.
Tom Rosenbauer (17:43) Right.
Yeah, yeah.
Joe Garza (18:04) what I see the most of that the fish is eating and then I'm gonna fish that.
Tom Rosenbauer (18:09) Yeah, I know a lot of people don't don't like the idea of throat pumps, but it doesn't hurt a trout. You're just squirting water in them. And yeah, maybe you're removing a few few of their last morsels. But boy, if you don't kill fish, you never know what they're eating for sure. Right.
Joe Garza (18:24) Yeah, that's a big one. ⁓ As far as the stomach pump goes, there's some videos online that'll tell you how to do it properly. You want to fill the pump with water first before you try to take stuff out of the fish's stomach. If you put a bunch of air in that fish's stomach, you're going to float that fish and it's going to die. basically, you know,
Tom Rosenbauer (18:34) Yeah, yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (18:53) look for some videos out there that show you how to pump the fish's stomach, get a pump and you're just taking a little bit of food from him to see what they're most of the fish. Because if that fish is eating them, the other fish are eating them too.
Tom Rosenbauer (18:56) Mm-hmm.
And I
think it's mainly the gullet, the throat, right? I don't think we're actually bringing stuff up from the stomach. It's just what's in their gullet, if I'm not mistaken.
Joe Garza (19:16) It's
down at their gullet and when you pump it, it pulls it, or when you squeeze and let it go, pulls it out. You don't have to put that throat pump all the way down into the fish. So ⁓ that's going to hurt the fish for sure. It's not like rivers where you can just walk out into the middle of the river, pick up a rock and go, look, there's bugs right there. I'm going to throw some of these.
Tom Rosenbauer (19:26) Right.
Yeah.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah,
right. Yeah.
Joe Garza (19:45) it can be a little more challenging for sure in, determining what they're going to eat. So, and, you know, with that being said, ⁓ that's going to lead me into the profile of the fly. know, you want to match the size, but the profile, you know, that, that fly needs to look like what the fish are seeing in the water or on top of the water. ⁓ you know, that.
Tom Rosenbauer (19:47) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (20:13) You can go to the fly shop and you can buy a bunch of different flies and go out and fish them and not catch anything. And there's probably an issue with the profile of that fly. It doesn't, it doesn't look right to the fish, you know. ⁓ it could look too bulky or it could look too skinny. It just depends. and that instill water, you know, I've seen fish, like I said, come right up to people's flies on my monitor.
Tom Rosenbauer (20:24) Okay. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Joe Garza (20:41) And they'll just sit there with their nose on that fly. So this is the fish. This is the fly and they'll sit there just like this and stare at it for 30, 30 seconds or more. And then they'll just drop down and keep swimming. So there was something about that fly that they did not like. And so they decided not to eat it. ⁓ that happens more often than, than, than people realize. So, and then.
Tom Rosenbauer (20:44) Yeah.
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Joe Garza (21:09) ⁓ I would say color, know, the color should be the same as the natural food in the still water that you're fishing. ⁓ Both dry fly and subsurface. I will say this, I do like my ⁓ still water flies tied more naturally to look more like the insects. I don't like a lot of flash in my flies or really flashy beads. I feel like that,
Tom Rosenbauer (21:37) Okay.
Joe Garza (21:39) turns off the fish after they see so many of those, feel like they look at that and go, nope, I remember what happened last time. And they just bypass it. So when I start seeing that, then I start switching over to a lot more natural flies.
Tom Rosenbauer (21:43) Yeah.
Hahaha.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's interesting because
you might think in a lake where there's so much water you need to draw the fish in, catch its attention, and you might think that flashy flies should work better, right? Kind of makes sense.
Joe Garza (22:07) Yeah,
I mean, and the thing about that is a lot of times, ⁓ and this is just personal feeling. ⁓ I feel like a lot of flies that are out on the market are tied to catch the angler and not the fish. So, you know, you go, that looks good. And you buy it and you don't catch anything on it. You're like, well, why did I buy that? So
Tom Rosenbauer (22:21) sure, yeah.
Or why did I tie that?
Joe Garza (22:33) Yeah,
exactly. you know, that's another thing is, you know, if you're tying your own flies experiment, don't don't be afraid. mean, I'm not opposed to to using flash. ⁓ I just find that after a certain amount of time ⁓ with so many boats in the system that it starts to turn the fish off when there's a lot of flash or flashy beads on your flies.
Tom Rosenbauer (22:56) Well, you're the guy who spends more time in the water, so I'll take your advice.
Joe Garza (23:00) So, and then also you have to remember that if you're fishing fly subsurface, as those flies sink down in the water column, they're gonna change colors. So a fly you buy in the fly shop that looks really nice might not look the same subsurface down at 20 or 30 feet.
Tom Rosenbauer (23:25) Mmm, yeah.
Joe Garza (23:26) There's a
lot of there's a lot of good YouTube videos on color changes as in relation to depth of water. So, yeah, and I tell people that like they'll come up and they'll have this ⁓ certain color fly, say purple on them like that's probably not going to work. then I mean, it's the right profile. It's the right size. But the color when it sinks is going to change to be a different color.
Tom Rosenbauer (23:33) Okay. Okay.
Joe Garza (23:54) down lower where there's less light penetration. So I tell people that quite often. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (23:57) Mm-hmm. Mm. Okay?
And I would imagine that color is probably more important in lakes than in moving water, Because the fish get a, again, fish get a closer look at it, right?
Joe Garza (24:08) So.
Yeah, they can, depending on where they're at in the water column, they get a pretty good look at it. So, ⁓ you know, I don't remember offhand what the colors are, but in reference to what we talked about the, pumping or the natural bugs, ⁓ if you can catch a nymph on still water, which is pretty challenging. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (24:22) Yeah. Okay.
Joe Garza (24:48) I would match that color at the surface because when you sink it down it'll probably look the same color down below. If that makes any sense to you.
Tom Rosenbauer (24:55) Okay, yeah. Sure, if the
natural looks that way, then the artificial should as well, right? Yeah.
Joe Garza (25:04) Exactly. I
find that same thing with like the pond smell. There's silvery on top and light sparkly, fluorescent on their sides, a lighter gray. And so that's the colors I tie in. And then you sync them down under the indicator and they look the same subsurface.
Tom Rosenbauer (25:21) Okay.
Mm hmm. Okay.
Joe Garza (25:26) ⁓ Patience on still water. This is number three, my friend. ⁓ Patience is a big thing on still water. ⁓ As we talked about earlier, still water moves at a crawl. ⁓ In rivers and streams, you're moving at the speed of the current. So, ⁓ you know.
Tom Rosenbauer (25:32) this number three? Is this number three? Okay.
Joe Garza (25:55) Things move pretty quick for fish, so they gotta make a split second decision as to whether or not they wanna eat. ⁓ When you get out to the still water, there's a lot of people that make that crossover from rivers and streams and come over to still water, because that's the best opportunity in a lot of areas to catch a trophy rainbow or brown, especially on my lakes like Lake Elinor or Eagle Lake. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (26:02) Yeah.
Joe Garza (26:27) and they just they don't have the patience. ⁓ So a couple things about still water. A common misconception is that there's no current in still water. However, ⁓ wind, river inlets, ⁓ springs subsurface and above the surface and the outflow of the dam, the draw of the water out of the lake will all cause a slow current in the lake.
Tom Rosenbauer (26:57) Mm hmm. Okay.
Joe Garza (26:57) ⁓
You know, your drifts under an indicator are going to be excruciatingly slow. ⁓ And, you know, I look at indicators a lot. I get a lot of beginners. you know, watching an indicator is gets challenging for me at times, but it's part of the game we play because
Tom Rosenbauer (27:04) You ⁓
Yeah. ⁓
Joe Garza (27:26) You know, just that's where the fish are. They're down deep and you want to be down in front of them. So. ⁓ So a lot of times I'm seeing anglers ⁓ pull up their flies and recast because they don't have that patience to let it sink and drift. ⁓ You know, they'll pull up their their presentation before their flies have even sunk down their bottom and.
And you gotta, you gotta remember you're not even in your drift until your flies are at depth. So until your flies are completely sunk under the water, ⁓ you're not fishing. So that, and that takes a while, you know, lot of times you're going to have to wait sometimes 20, 30 feet down. mean, there, there's times of the year where I fish at 30 feet down, ⁓ for, large trophy trout and.
Tom Rosenbauer (27:59) Yeah.
Thank
Wow.
Joe Garza (28:23) It takes a while. We're only using an eighth of an ounce ⁓ bead on those balanced leeches to get down. So it's going to take a little bit of time to get there. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (28:37) Do you
use that, obviously you must have to use that break off strike indicator, the one that slides up your leader,
Joe Garza (28:47) Yeah, I have a pretty good investment on those. So I use the Hare Line It's called the slip indicator when I first Yeah, I use the large one inch. When I first started, they were called pop top indicators.
Tom Rosenbauer (28:50) Ha ha ha ha ha.
Hareline sells them okay.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (29:07) That was once upon a time. So, but now ⁓ when it was first coming in, they really didn't know what to call them or, or how to gauge them. And they were, they were smaller, but now they've got several different sizes out there on the market. And those are primarily the ones I use for that. Unless I'm fishing bass on still water, then I'm, then I'm using a different type of float indicator with a fixed weight system.
Tom Rosenbauer (29:25) Okay.
OK, good.
Okay.
Okay. And, you know, if you haven't figured out why you need a indicator that pops, doesn't pop off the leader, it slides up the leader when when you hook a fish. ⁓ Just think you got a 30 foot tippet on there below your indicator, you're not going to be able to play a fish very well.
Joe Garza (29:55) Exactly. Yeah,
so you know when you set the hook on your fish, those ⁓ slip indicators are designed to separate where your indicator slides down to just above your fish so you can get it closer to the boat so somebody can net it for you. Otherwise you'd be, otherwise you might as well just be hand lining because you're gonna end up hand lining 30 feet of line into the boat.
Tom Rosenbauer (30:11) Right. Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah, you'd have to.
Joe Garza (30:24) And then you're going to end up with your leader tangled and then you're going to have to retire everything.
Tom Rosenbauer (30:29) Yeah, and
why buy a flyer out if you're going to hand line them, right?
Joe Garza (30:31) Exactly. Just take out
your spool of ⁓ fluorocarbon and just tie a hook on it and throw it out. ⁓ So another thing to remember during your indicator drifts is that you're fishing to cruising fish. So while your indicator out there is out there and it's slowly moving with the current, ⁓ you're waiting for the fish to come.
Tom Rosenbauer (30:37) Yeah, yeah. ⁓
Joe Garza (31:01) find you. That's how it differs from the rivers where you're moving down to the fish and you're covering a lot of ground and covering a lot of areas where fish should be holding. So that's why it gets excruciating for some people is that you're waiting for those fish to cruise along. And I'll kind of explain the cruising methods a little later in our podcast here.
Tom Rosenbauer (31:05) Yeah.
Right. Right.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Is
that another mistake? Okay.
Joe Garza (31:32) It is.
So, and then.
Tom Rosenbauer (31:37) I think I've made all of
these mistakes so far, Joe. So you're doing good.
Joe Garza (31:40) Uh, you know,
I wouldn't feel bad. I've made them too. Um, like I said, there's a, there's a big learning curve to still water fly fishing. Um, it's, it's substantially different than, than how we fish tailwaters and streams and rivers. So.
Tom Rosenbauer (31:44) Yeah.
Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it sure is.
game.
Joe Garza (32:03) ⁓ So for your ⁓ intermediate and full sinking lines, this also requires a lot of patience. ⁓ Again, your flies have to be at the correct depth and that's where the fish are, which is generally speaking going to be one to three feet of the bottom of the lake. ⁓ when you cast out your intermediate line, you're going to cast out
straight out front of you and you're gonna wait and let it sink and you're gonna count down to the depth you want. So you gotta figure at one and a half inches per second sink rate on a one foot sink it's gonna take eight seconds to get down to that spot where you want to fish and start your retrieve in. So ⁓ you know on a
Tom Rosenbauer (32:52) Yeah, yeah.
Right.
Joe Garza (32:59) I generally don't go past 15 feet with my intermediate line because it takes too long to get down there. That's when I jump over to the three or four inch per second sink rate lines. But you can do it. You're just going to have to wait a long time. I think it's 240 seconds to get down to 30 feet.
Tom Rosenbauer (33:05) Mm-hmm. Okay.
Okay.
You
Joe Garza (33:23) So, don't check my math on that. I'm not sure that that's accurate. It's a very long time. And again, that's the thing. If you don't let it sink enough, you're just pulling the fly over the top of the fish, where the fish are. And contrary, if you let it sink too long,
Tom Rosenbauer (33:29) That's okay. It's it's a it's a long time and you got to be patient. That's the point, right?
Yeah, right. Okay.
Joe Garza (33:48) You're going to be dredging the bottom and you'll be under where the fish are snagging up on things down below. ⁓ So there's a fine line between how you want to do your retrieve. ⁓ With the sinking lines and the retrieves, a lot of times I also see ⁓ anglers when they cast out, they start ripping it like they're fishing striper in the river. they completely neglect
Tom Rosenbauer (33:51) Mm-hmm.
Joe Garza (34:18) that in still water everything slows down to a crawl. While there are some fish that will chase and strike at that, the majority of your fish are not going to even give that thing a bother. They're not going to take off and chase that. In the fall, ⁓ fishing like that is probably better because the fish are feeding heavily on pond smelt. And there's big pods of pond smelt around our lake that the fish just
Tom Rosenbauer (34:22) Right. ⁓
Okay.
Joe Garza (34:48) crash through and eat, but they'll chase a stray. You'll see them branch off the pod of fish and one large fish chasing something like a bullet. That's because they're chasing a pond smelt. So ⁓ I use a hand twist retrieve when I'm retrieving. And so basically, I don't know if you can see this, but I'm just rolling my hand like this and pinching the line.
Tom Rosenbauer (35:00) Mm Okay.
Joe Garza (35:17) back and forth. I'm rolling over my pinky. I know you can't see that. I'm rolling over my pinky and then pinching it with my thumb and forefinger. Then I'm rolling over the pinky again. Phil has a good demonstration of this hand twist retrieve out there. I like the hand twist retrieve for two reasons. One, it keeps you in contact with your flies continuously. A lot of the subsurface strikes can be subtle.
Tom Rosenbauer (35:42) Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Joe Garza (35:46) So
when you feel it, you want to set that hook. But also, you can increase or decrease your speed based on how you're seeing the fly line behave in the water. But staying tight to that fly line is crucial. As I'm doing that hand twist and retrieve,
This is something a lot of people ⁓ neglect to do is at various points during your retrieve, you want to take a pause and let your flies hang in the water or dangle there for a few seconds. I'd say five to 10 seconds. ⁓ Because when bugs hatch in still water, they'll swim up and then they'll pause and suspend.
or sink a little bit and then they'll swim up again and they'll take a pause and suspend or sink a little bit. Then they'll swim up again and they continually do this until they reach the surface and hatch. That's often overlooked A lot of guys they'll just hand strip in, no pause, no anything. And that doesn't look natural to the fish. ⁓ And then also,
Tom Rosenbauer (36:55) Okay.
Okay.
Joe Garza (37:12) ⁓ I see a lot of missed fish right at the edge of the boat where clients get to the edge of the boat and then they just pick up and start to recast. When you get to the edge of the boat and you're just about ready to recast, take about a 15 second pause and let that hang there for a few for 15 seconds and wait to see if a fish is down there.
A lot of times you'll get a grab right there. ⁓ and then obviously you recast and started all over. ⁓ I will say this. I, I don't have people cast the sinking line to the same place two times in a row. have them work their way around the clock. So if they started at 12 o'clock, their next cast will be at one o'clock. After that, their next cast would be at two o'clock. So.
Tom Rosenbauer (37:44) Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Mm Okay.
Joe Garza (38:12) The center of the boat being the center of the clock. 12 o'clock is the front of the boat. Six o'clock is the back of the boat. Three o'clock is going to be on your right hand side of the boat. And nine o'clock is going to be on the left hand side of the boat. the person in front has nine o'clock to three o'clock to fish. And then the person in back has three o'clock around to nine o'clock to fish. So that they're not crossing over each other.
Tom Rosenbauer (38:37) Okay.
Right. Okay.
Joe Garza (38:41) If you're by yourself or in a float tube, just remember, don't cast at the same place. You just retrieved from, move over, cast to a different area. That's a big one. That's one I see a lot. They keep casting over and over to the same spot. ⁓ So I think number four.
Tom Rosenbauer (38:51) Okay.
Joe Garza (39:08) going in is going to be missed hook sets to the fish. Both for indicator and sinking lines. What I see, the biggest mistake that I see is not setting the hook properly. They come out and they give me the old trout stream dry fly hook set and that's just a little pop-up and slight strip down. That doesn't work with long leaders on subsurface under an indicator.
Tom Rosenbauer (39:11) Mm-hmm.
Right.
Joe Garza (39:37) and it doesn't work with ⁓ sinking lines either because you change the angle of your flies and in that split second as you're lifting, they're spitting your fly on the sinking lines. ⁓ So it works great when we're dry fly fishing, say hexagenia or floating pond smelt. And that's because what's happening is
Tom Rosenbauer (39:42) Okay.
Okay.
Joe Garza (40:06) is those fish, when they eat a dry fly, they come up, they eat your fly and they make a turn and they go back down. So they've essentially done 90 % of your hook set for you. All you have to do is give a slight jab and a little pull down and you're going to button up that fish. So with the indicators, you have to do 90 % of the hook set with
Tom Rosenbauer (40:25) Right.
Joe Garza (40:35) the trout doing 10 % of the hook set. So when you set your hook with the indicator set up, it's going to be greatly exaggerated. Your rod tip is going to be pointed at your indicator down by the water surface. And when that indicator moves or submerges, you're going to use your whole arm and you're going to bring that rod tip straight up
Tom Rosenbauer (40:52) Mm-hmm.
Joe Garza (41:04) above your head without breaking your elbow or your wrist. It's going to be just a straight arm because you have, yeah because you have you know at times like I said 20 to 30 feet of leader to move. ⁓ And then as you're doing that you're simultaneously going to strip in line down to your thigh and when you get to full extension above your head
Tom Rosenbauer (41:09) Huh.
Straight arm lift.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (41:30) You're going to come up and take a secondary strip to bend your rod to keep that hook in the fish's mouth.
Tom Rosenbauer (41:36) Wow, so two hauls on it when you're setting the hook, okay? And long hauls, okay?
Joe Garza (41:38) Yes, yes and long. So you
you want to cover as much you want to get as much separation as possible when you're setting that hook set the first time and then that secondary strip is is a lot of times when they feel that that weight and that resistance they'll come up and at you and I use a lot of barbless flies
Tom Rosenbauer (41:48) Okay.
Okay.
.
Joe Garza (42:06) And so if you don't take that secondary strip, doesn't keep the fly in the fish's mouth.
Tom Rosenbauer (42:10) Hmm. Yeah. Okay. Because it's gonna bounce a little bit. There's gonna be still slack in there. Okay.
Joe Garza (42:12) So.
Yeah, yeah. And then, you know,
you equate line stretch in there as well. So the fluorocarbon doesn't stretch, but your fly line will. But with that being said, after you lift and you strip and you bend the rod, if your fish goes out to your right side, you want to use angles on your rod. So.
Tom Rosenbauer (42:21) Yeah, yeah.
Right. OK.
Joe Garza (42:40) You're not going to be straight up and down against that fish that gives the fish too much leverage to bounce your fly out of its mouth If you change your angle of your rod just slightly and keep it elevated To your left if that fish is out on your right and you angle your rod over to your left and that bend is on your left going down to the fish There's gonna be two things are gonna happen one. That's gonna help keep your your flies in the fish's mouth and then
Tom Rosenbauer (42:47) Right.
Mm-hmm.
Joe Garza (43:09) and then two that's going to put pressure on the fish and it's going to lead him back towards you at some point so he'll go on a run out to your right you've got your rod bent he's starting to come back that's when you take up your line you can either reel your line or you can strip in your line like this i like to strip in line because you get greater distance when you when you reel up on your fish
Tom Rosenbauer (43:35) Yeah.
Joe Garza (43:36) You're only getting about that much line per reel, depending on the size, size reel you're using. So, so, you know, it's going to be a give and take for a few minutes, but, ⁓ as he comes back across you, as that fish comes back across you and starts going to the left, you're leading him that direction. You're going to change your angle back over to the right now. So now your rod is angled on your right.
Tom Rosenbauer (43:39) Yeah, yeah. Right, few inches.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Okay.
Joe Garza (44:04) back down to the fish that is going left and you're going to give him a little bit of line, not much, if he wants to take it. Now if he's pulling really hard, you're going to give him as much line as he wants. ⁓ But what's going to happen is he's going to reach a certain point and go, I don't like this either. Fish don't like to be, be led around in the water. So, you know, they're going to come back. Yeah, they're going to.
Tom Rosenbauer (44:15) Right.
I've noticed that.
Joe Garza (44:30) they're going to come back. So that's when you take up that line. So basically you're going to zigzag that fish to the boat as you're taking up the slack in the line. And then once you get that fish close to the boat, you're going to elevate your rod over your head to create a pendulum for whoever has the net so they can get underneath that fish. Elevating the rod isn't, isn't really pulling the rod.
Tom Rosenbauer (44:41) Right.
Joe Garza (44:57) your forehead like this. So when I tell people to elevate, I get a lot of this and they pull the rod and they're lifting the tip but they're not elevating it so we can get that net under without knocking the hook under out of the fish's mouth. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (45:02) Yeah.
Okay, okay, good.
Joe Garza (45:17) And then, you know, we celebrate, get the picture of the trophy, brown or rainbow, and let them go to fight another day. ⁓ Another thing with indicators is too much slack in your line when you're fishing. ⁓ Staying tight to your indicator is crucial. Sometimes
Tom Rosenbauer (45:24) Hmm?
Is this number
five or are we still on four? Okay, all right. I want to keep track here.
Joe Garza (45:41) No, we're still on four. ⁓ Four is
kind of a big, big section here. again, too much slack in your lines. So wind. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (45:50) Okay, that's right. That's all right.
Joe Garza (46:07) ⁓ boat movement, and, your drift are all going to cause a belly to start to form in your line between you and that indicator. And that's what I mean by when we say slack, that belly in the line is going to cause issues. always want to be. Semi-tight to that indicator because sometimes, you know, we get sometimes a strike and look like this. It could just be.
Tom Rosenbauer (46:21) All right.
Mm-hmm.
Joe Garza (46:38) And that's a strike. And you have a split second to react to try to button up that fish. And if you're not tight and you're trying to make up all that slack, ⁓ the lost time in there allows that fish to spit that fly out ⁓ relatively quickly. So what we do is as that belly starts to form in your line, you're going to throw them in opposite of that belly.
Tom Rosenbauer (46:39) Okay.
Right. Okay.
Okay.
Joe Garza (47:06) while lifting your indicator up out of the water about eight inches. And this concept is foreign to people that fish in the rivers and streams because you're told not to move your indicator while you're fishing. So a lot of people struggle with that. In still water, ⁓ movement on your flies is a good thing for the fish. ⁓ They like to see their prey move in still water.
Tom Rosenbauer (47:21) Yeah, right.
Joe Garza (47:36) So, you know, moving those flies or moving that indicator up and out of the water is also going to elevate your flies up in the water column and then cause them to sink again. That gives them some swimming motion in the water that might set them apart from other bugs at that time and get the fish's attention and cause a strike. So after you make that mend and you set your line down on the water,
Tom Rosenbauer (47:59) Okay. Okay.
Joe Garza (48:05) you'll have a little pile of slack lines still. What you do is you point the tip of the rod at that slack line and slowly take it up so you don't move that indicator out of the drift it's in. I've noticed that pulling that indicator across the feeding lanes unnaturally turns the fish off. So I've watched it on the monitor where we'll have a fish cruising in like this.
Tom Rosenbauer (48:20) huh, okay.
Yeah. huh. Okay.
Joe Garza (48:34) and then that fly goes from here to here unnaturally and that fish turns and takes off. Yes, sir.
So that leads us into our sinking line presentations. With your sinking line, note this is still in number four with the missed hook sets and lost fish. So I know it's a lot. So I get that when we're on the boat though, that's a lot of information Joe, I don't know if I'm gonna retain it. There's a lot.
Tom Rosenbauer (48:46) All right.
Is this number five?
⁓ okay. No, it's all good stuff though.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (49:13) ⁓ of stuff and a lot of little mistakes that add up to whether or not you're going to catch fish or not. So with your hook sets on your sinking lines, it's going to be your standard strip set. You're just going to strip set into your waist. After you button up that fish and you feel them, you're going to lift the rod and play the fish with the angles like we discussed a few minutes ago. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (49:21) Yeah.
Yep. Okay. And
keep stripping right until you actually feel the fish on there. Don't, don't raise your rod tip when you feel them.
Joe Garza (49:46) Yeah.
This subsection here is key to me. ⁓ And it's how I learned to fish still waters. Jay Fair ⁓ was a good friend of mine. And I have an article out in California Fly Fisher that discusses my first trip on Eagle Lake and on still water. And ⁓ it's hard.
Tom Rosenbauer (49:53) Thanks.
Joe Garza (50:14) Sometimes when you're stripping in that line with the hand twist to tell that you actually have a strike. And it wasn't until Jay told me this that it all clicked and made sense. I was fishing with my son the first time on still water and we didn't catch anything. It was freezing cold. We were in float tubes. We were on Eagle Lake in late October and I think the temperature got down to 29 degrees that morning.
Tom Rosenbauer (50:21) Yeah.
Joe Garza (50:41) And yeah, it was pretty frigid. ⁓ So later that evening, I had seen Jay coming out of the market and he said, ⁓ he asked us how our trip was. He already kind of heard about it. And he said, as he was leaving, he turned around and said, hey, by the way, Joe, while you were fishing, did you ever feel like you were hanging on a blade of grass or weed
Looked at a puzzle and I said, well, yeah, kind of all day. I thought it was just the bottom or the tules He's all, hey, when you head out tomorrow and my son exclaimed the same thing and he's all, hey, when you two head out tomorrow, do me a favor. When you feel that set the hook. And next morning we went out. I had, think, I think we ended up with 14 fish to the net between us. All because of.
Tom Rosenbauer (51:34) ⁓
Joe Garza (51:38) that it's so when you're stripping and you feel like you're hung on something, set that hook. It could be just it could feel just like you're on a weed or a piece of grass. ⁓ So what it is is when they're cruising, ⁓ they're sucking in food. And as soon as they realize it's not edible, they're spitting it right back out. And it's just a split second that you'll feel that. And that's what it feels like is hanging on a blade of grass.
Tom Rosenbauer (51:43) Yeah. Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, good to know.
Joe Garza (52:07) So yeah,
so that's another ⁓ reason why hook sets get missed with the sinking lines on still water. ⁓ Another reason is again slack line ⁓ will cause issues with your hook set because you're losing contact with your flies. ⁓ So if you see a large down slope in your sinking line that goes down into the water, you've got too much slack line. There's too much arch there ⁓ for you to feel that.
Tom Rosenbauer (52:11) It's real good to know.
Yep. Okay.
Joe Garza (52:37) that fish eat your fly when they're that subtle. ⁓ And then the same thing is if the wind or the currents got your fly line and you have a big bow in your fly line while you're stripping, ⁓ you're also going to lose contact with those flies and not feel a tick. ⁓ Other reasons for missed hook sets is just plain old distractions, know, cell phone, taking in the scenery, which, you know, is okay, know, birds, fish, wildlife.
Tom Rosenbauer (52:41) Okay.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (53:07) That's all part of the experience ⁓ or just turning your head to talk to somebody I mean those fish they basically know if you're not paying attention and they'll eat when you're so It happens every time
Tom Rosenbauer (53:12) Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Sure does.
Joe Garza (53:24) So ⁓ that leads us into the basic understanding of fish behavior and where fish can be found in still water. ⁓ Yes, very important. So as I said earlier, trout feed subsurface 80 to 90 % of the time, ⁓ which makes it challenging to know where the fish are and what they're eating. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (53:34) Yeah, important, very important.
Joe Garza (53:53) For beginners, recommend finding a river or stream inlet. Those are good places to start when you're on still water. They bring food and oxygen into the lake and you'll find a large variety of aquatic life there and a lot of happy trout. The next is going to be Springs is another good place to start if you have an idea of where the springs are. Now Springs on
My lakes are mostly submerged, but you have an occasional spring that comes out of the shoreline that you can hear in the rocks or see coming into the lake. Generally, that means there's other opening subsurface. That's a good place to try to fish as well. ⁓ And then ⁓ Phil talks.
Tom Rosenbauer (54:40) Mmm.
Okay.
Joe Garza (54:49) pretty heavily about this, the littoral zones and the shoals. ⁓ Littoral zones are the near shore area of the lake where sunlight ⁓ reaches the bottom and it supports aquatic life such as plants, insects and small fish. And then the shoal is in the lake. It goes from the shallow area to the deeper area of the lake. It's usually identified by a curvature.
Tom Rosenbauer (54:53) Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (55:17) of the littoral zone going down into the deeper water. And ⁓ trout, it's basically your drop-offs, yes. And so it's, and then it's gonna be surrounded by the deeper water. But the shoals and littoral zones concentrate fish and food. And that makes it a key area.
Tom Rosenbauer (55:21) Mm-hmm.
So like a drop, it's a drop off, right? Okay.
Joe Garza (55:46) and holding area for fish, especially at those drop off points. They're safe, they're deep enough to be safe, but they're shallow enough to still find food and feed. ⁓ Think of these zones as like the fish are going to the buffet to eat. ⁓ The trout will cruise these zones, they'll start at point A and they'll work their way down to point B.
Tom Rosenbauer (55:58) Okay.
Joe Garza (56:15) looking for food and feeding. So when they get to point B, they turn around and go back towards point A. And then when they get back to point A, they turn and go and do it again. ⁓ So they travel these lanes so frequently, they cut through the weeds and make what looks like a two lane highway.
Tom Rosenbauer (56:28) Mm-hmm.
Really?
Joe Garza (56:42) Yes, so I've seen in some of my shallower lakes that I've fished in the past, you'll see lines cut into the weeds. And then if you watch, you'll see fish cruising that line in between the weeds. And then a few moments later, you'll see a fish coming the other way, cruising the other line. It's almost like a fish highway. And so they're going back and forth on those lines, looking for food.
Tom Rosenbauer (56:46) Yeah.
huh.
Wow.
huh.
And those
those those lands are made by the fish just going back and forth, huh? Huh?
Joe Garza (57:12) Yes, yes, I've seen it
where they've traveled that path so often that they've kicked up all the weeds and just made a ⁓ bare bottom and it looks like a lane.
Tom Rosenbauer (57:22) Huh.
Huh.
That's interesting. I think I've seen carp do that now that you mentioned it as through the weeds.
Joe Garza (57:30) Ahem.
Yeah.
Yeah, they, carp will root up weeds just to get to stuff, but,
Tom Rosenbauer (57:41) Yeah,
yeah, but I didn't realize trout would would actually form a lane in the weeds too. That's really interesting.
Joe Garza (57:49) Yeah, one of my shallower lakes at a private water I fish. ⁓ I've that very frequently where those lanes and all the fish are traveling the same lanes going back and forth. So they'll go out from shallower water down into deeper water, and then they'll turn and come back and on the other lane go in the opposite direction.
Tom Rosenbauer (57:59) Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Okay.
Joe Garza (58:18) So
I don't know if they have traffic lights down there or not. It's very peculiar because they don't run into each other. They separate and pass each other on different lanes. So yeah. ⁓ that leads me into the...
Tom Rosenbauer (58:27) ⁓ huh.
Interesting. Interesting.
Joe Garza (58:46) next section which is identifying this is number six we're finally there i know so much information brains hurting huh and and this well i mean this is just a handful of them i mean it's it's a tough transition coming from moving water again to to the snow water it's it's significantly different so
Tom Rosenbauer (58:48) Is this number six? Is this number six?
Hehehehe
⁓ yeah. Yeah. A lot of mistakes, a lot of mistakes to make Joe.
huh. Yeah. Yeah. it is. It is. Yeah.
Joe Garza (59:16) And if you, ⁓ a lot of people get frustrated with themselves, unfortunately. ⁓ I like fishing the Stillwater just because I like fishing. I like looking for the trophy fish, the, you know, 20 plus inch fish. ⁓ You know, 25 to 30 inch brown is not uncommon on Lake Alminor. So those are the fish I like to chase. That's my favorite fish.
Tom Rosenbauer (59:22) Mm-hmm. Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah,
I don't blame you.
Joe Garza (59:48) Yeah.
So ⁓ number six here, my last one for today is basically identifying ⁓ external factors that will affect the fish's ⁓ feeding behavior. And that could be adverse weather. It could be the wind. It could be air temperatures. And it could be earthquakes. We have a lot of earthquakes around where I like to fish.
And so I'll cover that in just a second, but adverse weather can turn the, could cause the fish to start feeding heavily or turn them off.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:00:29) Yeah.
Joe Garza (1:00:32) So, you know, I found that ⁓ before thunderstorms, ⁓ fish will usually start to feed pretty heavily before a thunderstorm that's coming in. ⁓ But during the thunderstorm, they'll turn off the bite, they'll go to deeper water, because usually thunderstorm brings a lot of wind with it on the high mountain lakes that I fish. And that churns up the water pretty good. So they'll retreat to safer areas.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:00:38) Mm-hmm.
Okay. Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Joe Garza (1:01:01) ⁓ And after that, it could put the bite down for a day or more. ⁓ And I definitely wouldn't recommend trying to fish through a thunderstorm. One lightning strike on the lake, ⁓ you're literally gonna be toast, especially if you're in a float tube or you're standing in the water. ⁓ And you definitely don't wanna be out there in the living of boat.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:01:06) Mm. Mm.
Nope.
Yeah.
With a 10 foot lightning rod in your hand. Yeah, yeah, not a good idea.
Joe Garza (1:01:30) with a 10-foot lightning rod in your hand exactly. yeah, ⁓
which now leads me into the wind. ⁓ A light wind is desirable when fly fishing still waters. Like I said earlier, that wind will cause chop on the water. That causes your flies extra swimming action. And the fish like to see their bugs moving in still water.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:01:44) Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Joe Garza (1:02:00) ⁓ their bait, their bugs, their flies, ⁓ etc. ⁓ Another thing to remember with the wind is it will push the food, oxygen, and the trout the same direction as blowing. So it'll essentially congregate them towards a certain area. So if the wind is blowing towards you and you're standing on shore and there's a little cove there,
Tom Rosenbauer (1:02:25) Right.
Mm hmm. Okay.
Joe Garza (1:02:28) probably a good place to fish because they're retreating
into that food is being pushed into that area and the fish are retreating into the cove for protection from the wind. And when I say protection from the wind, I'm talking about high winds over 15 miles an hour ⁓ where they go into these coves and seek shelter. But there's food and oxygen there for them to to shelter out that wind.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:02:34) huh.
Okay.
Yeah, I think the natural tendency
of people is to get in get in the the lee end of the lake right because it's calmer they're easier to cast a little more comfortable but you're saying that the food in the trout and the oxygen are probably getting pushed to the other side of the lake. Okay. ⁓
Joe Garza (1:03:08) Yes, that's pretty, pretty common ⁓
thing. Now there will be fish in the slack zones that you just talked about, but the, you know, keeping in mind that, you the other side of the lake, it's coming down generally a, a, a, a hill down across the lake.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:03:17) Yeah.
Joe Garza (1:03:35) So there's fish on both side of the lake. So the fish on your side of lake are being pushed closer to you.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:03:40) Okay. Okay.
Joe Garza (1:03:43) if I made that make any sense to you. ⁓ Next is going to be your air temperatures. ⁓ Both hot and cold air temperatures definitely affect trout behavior. ⁓ With frigid air temperatures in the wintertime, the trout will move down into the thermocline where the water temperature is a little bit warmer than near the surface or near the shoreline, ⁓ which is generally deeper ⁓ and tougher to fish on.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:03:45) Mm Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Right. Yeah.
Joe Garza (1:04:12) My legs, that could be downwards of about 50 feet or so. And I don't fish anything that deep. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (1:04:16) Mmm.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (1:04:22) ⁓ And then wintertime the fish will also become more lethargic and they're doing that to conserve their energy until they can get a few morsels of food. One thing the trout will do is they'll go to springs during the wintertime because that's a more consistent temperature coming into the lake or exactly there it's warmer there. And what they can do is they can
Tom Rosenbauer (1:04:45) Usually warmer too.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (1:04:51) They can hunker down into those springs and just sit there and not have to work for food. The food's being brought to them and all they have to do is open their mouth and eat. So.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:04:54) Mm-hmm.
Right? What do
you find to be the optimum water temperature in lakes? Is it any different than in rivers and streams?
Joe Garza (1:05:10) I like
For me on the lake, like between 60 and 65 water temperature. ⁓ As soon as it starts to encroach over 68, I start to become more cautious and selective of where I fish, ⁓ which I'll cover here in the next one. ⁓ When the air temperature gets too hot, ⁓ the fish will move to ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (1:05:18) Okay. Yep.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (1:05:42) colder water ⁓ where there's oxygen coming in. That includes the river inlets, the springs. ⁓
High surface temperatures on still water, over 70 degrees. ⁓ On lakes, there's no dissolved oxygen in that top 10 feet of water. So if you're fishing for trout and the water surface temperature is over 70 degrees and you land a nice fish from underneath that, you're probably going to suffocate that fish because there's no dissolved oxygen there to revive that fish. ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (1:06:23) say you just stop
fishing.
Joe Garza (1:06:25) I don't stop fishing necessarily. look for, I go near the inlets where the water coming in is colder and more oxygenated. Or I go near the springs where the water has more oxygenation in it. And generally around the springs, the surface temperature is going to be cooler too. Same thing with the rivers. ⁓ But I see a lot of, ⁓
Tom Rosenbauer (1:06:32) Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Joe Garza (1:06:56) folks fishing in the summertime after the water temperature goes over 70 degrees and I see a lot of dead fish floating because they didn't get an opportunity to revive. ⁓ And then last one we talked earlier, ⁓ earthquakes. During an earthquake and after an earthquake, fishing completely turns off for a day or two.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:07:08) Yeah.
Right. Okay.
Yeah.
Really?
Joe Garza (1:07:26) ⁓ yeah, I've been on the lake during an earthquake and it was fishing red hot and we probably had 12, 15 fish to the net by 9 30 AM and an earthquake came through and it's pretty interesting to watch because the waves are very uniform as they're coming across. There's no other boats around and all of a sudden you'll just get these ghost waves coming in and they're all uniform.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:07:33) Huh?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe Garza (1:07:56) They're all the same size. They're spaced, ⁓ identically apart. And, and they come in and they, they keep going. And immediately after the bite just shuts off, it's Yeah. For a day or two, depending on how large the quake was, I've, I've had, I've seen it go three or four days. ⁓ you know, after a 5.3 earthquake, it went about four days. So.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:08:00) Wow.
for a day or two, huh?
Yeah.
Wow.
So it just disturbs
the fish for whatever reason, the vibrations or whatever scare the fish.
Joe Garza (1:08:29) I haven't,
I haven't quite researched it or figured it out yet, but there's something about it that they don't like. I think it's just the way the water moves, ⁓ spooks them and they're not sure what's going on. Like, I'm sure the pressure changes, ⁓ on their body is, is very, very, ⁓ or the equilibrium within them gets, gets messed up because of the vibration in the water. So.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:08:32) Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Hmm.
huh.
Yeah.
Yeah, okay.
Joe Garza (1:08:58) But yeah, that's some of the common mistakes. That's not all of them, but that's some of the big ones that I see pretty frequently on our still waters up here.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:09:09) Don't ever fish after an earthquake. That's a definitely a new one for me.
Joe Garza (1:09:15) Yeah, that's,
you know, it was very interesting to be out there and watch it happen in real time because had I not been out there, I wouldn't have been able to identify why the fishing just dropped off like that.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:09:23) Yeah.
Yeah, I wonder if like a mild tremor that we don't even feel sometimes affects the fish. Yeah, interesting.
Joe Garza (1:09:36) I'm not sure. just, I've, I've seen it
happen on ⁓ both Lake Alminor and Eagle Lake, ⁓ where these random waves just came out of nowhere. No boat around, no nothing. I'm like, I'll look at the client and go, we just had an earthquake. And they're like, no, those are from a boat. I'm like, where's the boat? And they're like, ⁓ there's no boat around us. And then later when we get home, I'll look it up online. Yeah, sure enough, we had an earthquake, you know, a little rattler, you know, a little.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:09:42) Huh.
UGH
Huh.
Joe Garza (1:10:06) 1.9 or 2 but nothing major but it does affect how the fish ⁓ feed. It tends to turn them off.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:10:07) Yeah.
Wow.
Joe Garza (1:10:16) So.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:10:18) Well, Joe, that has been great. I learned a lot. know the podcast listeners are going to learn a lot and very complete. And I really, really appreciate you coming on to the podcast today. Joe.
Joe Garza (1:10:31) Well, absolutely.
I appreciate being a guest. Pleasure. This is my first podcast.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:10:34) Joe told me it's his first podcast and that's, ⁓ that's, that's an, that's
an honor to have you on as your first podcast, Joe. Did I say that?
Joe Garza (1:10:46) Well, I appreciate
the opportunity, Tom. I've watched a lot of your videos online and I appreciate your friendliness and your candidness and helping me through this. So it's an honor to be here too.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:10:58) Well, you notice
on the Stillwater video on the Learning Center, I had Phil do all of it. Well, thank you, Joe.
Joe Garza (1:11:05) Yeah, I saw that. So maybe
maybe someday you can get up here and fish with me. I'd enjoy that.
Tom Rosenbauer (1:11:13) Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you, Joe. And
we've been talking to Joe Garza, who is an orvis endorsed guide in northern California and fishes both rivers and lakes. But today we're talking about lakes. So thanks again, Joe. I hope to talk to you soon.
Joe Garza (1:11:28) You're welcome.
Thank you. Appreciate it.