Tips for Urban Fly Fishing, with Marc Fryt

Tom Rosenbauer (00:01): My guest today is Mark Fryt and Mark and I have been been talking for a long time about urban fly fishing and Mark's been been working on a book that I that I kind of encouraged him to do because I think you know, there's some as we were talking before we started there's some there's a couple of local books on urban fly fishing, but there's nothing out there that I know of. That's kind of a general guide where you could go anywhere in the country. and use this book to get started in fly fishing and really to get started in urban fly fishing. ⁓ So ⁓ Mark, you want to tell people the name of your book?

Marc Fryt (00:42): Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the name is called The Guide to Urban Fly Fishing. And the general premise of the book is ⁓ a strategy that you can use to, like you said, fly fish any city that you wind up in, whether that's city that you live in or if you're traveling to various cities throughout the country, this is a template to help you get started. ⁓ And it's for all experience levels, people that have been fly fishing for years. people that are completely new to fly fishing. ⁓ It gives them, yeah, starting point to go off of. And along the way, learning about urban ecosystems and how to catch fish within them.

Tom Rosenbauer (01:15): Mm-hmm. All kinds of fish, right? All kinds, all kinds of fish.

Marc Fryt (01:27): Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people are like, ⁓ yeah, well, there aren't trout in my city. And and so, you know, I can't go urban fly fishing and know the book covers both freshwater and saltwater and various species that you'll come across. In the book, I definitely highlight some of the more common species that are that are ⁓ more prevalent in our cities. And I go into details of why that is. in order to give readers some key insights into catching those particular species. ⁓

Tom Rosenbauer (02:04): Yeah. And it's a, if, if people haven't tried it, urban fly fishing is really cool. mean, I have gone to cities just to fly fish before where everybody else is driving outside of town to go trout fishing. And I've gone to chase carp or bass or whatever. So, ⁓ it, if you haven't tried it, it's worth it. Mark's going to give us some tips today on some certain aspects of, of urban fly fishing that, you know, urban fly fishing. does present a few obstacles sometimes. ⁓ Mark, you wanna tell people about how to overcome those obstacles?

Marc Fryt (02:45): Yeah, and the first obstacle that we can really think about with urban fly fishing is, I mean, urban areas or cities, they're crowded. There's a lot of people walking around riding bikes and it's, you know, not always easy to get away from the crowds. And sometimes the best fishing opportunities in your city are in downtown areas, in city parks, along waterfronts where Yeah, there's people that are around you and it seems pretty counterintuitive to encourage people to go fly fishing in those places. And you're trying to cast the fly rod and there's just crowds of people walking around and, and caring about their day. That is, um, you know, that could be a barrier for a lot of people to, just kind of mentally overcome. think, well, I can't even make a cast. So that just rules out all of these bodies of water. in my city and it's just not the case. ⁓ One of the examples for me that comes readily to mind is ⁓ while I was working on my book I was traveling to a bunch of cities and meeting up with various urban anglers and fishing their waters with them and one of the coolest moments was fishing in downtown Los Angeles at a place called MacArthur Lake. ⁓ And this place is, you know, it is as busy as it gets. Crowds of people walking around. There were food vendors. There were families. And all the while, there were these massive carp that were feeding right there in the water. ⁓ And the anglers that I was hanging out with, not only were they standing like right next to that water line with people behind them, but they were able to get their lines in the water and catch these big carp. simple casts like a roll cast or even just holding the rod out and dapping the fly into the water, an immediate ⁓ opening into these crowded spaces. ⁓ And so that's kind of the first big tip that I give ⁓ anglers that are thinking about getting into urban fly fishing is, ⁓

Tom Rosenbauer (04:52): Mm-hmm. huh.

Marc Fryt (05:09): If you've been fly fishing for a while, kind of go back to the basics a little bit with your roll cast. You should be able to ⁓ roll cast your line out there 15 feet at least with an indicator and a fly on, and that's just going to open up a lot of the water for you. So if you have been struggling with your roll cast, this is a great motivation to revisit that. ⁓ In Central Park.

Tom Rosenbauer (05:14): Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (05:37): I was with a fly fishing guide, Brandon Dale, who I, he was on your podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And there was another really cool moment where the, you know, central park super, super busy, but we got out there at the, you know, the crack of dawn. And, you know, there were still some people walking around and then we went up to this spot where there was a collection of rowboats and they were all just kind of docked.

Tom Rosenbauer (05:42): Yep. huh. Yep.

Marc Fryt (06:05): in this one central area, was before people, you know, that place opened up and people were getting in the rowboats and these carp were coming up and feeding on a surface in between the rowboats. And so was a it was, it was a very tough cast, but that's where, you know, like a bone arrow cast really into play and just being able to load that rod up and then release that fly in front of you and kind of dial in these precision, you know, ⁓ presentations. ⁓

Tom Rosenbauer (06:22): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (06:35): So the bow and arrow cast and then, yeah, ⁓ that roll cast. So those are two casts to have in your back pocket while urban fly fishing. And then another great one that listeners might not be too familiar with is ⁓ the steeple cast. And the steeple cast is very useful for when you're fishing on top of bridges.

Tom Rosenbauer (06:54): Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (07:03): ⁓ I love fishing in downtown here in Spokane and there's a footbridge that ⁓ there's street lamps, sometimes they put out signs for festivals and the signs and all this stuff just kind of get in the way. And being able to make a longer cast, a little bit longer than a roll cast, that's where the steeple cast can come in. And it's essentially keeping your back cast almost vertically behind you.

Tom Rosenbauer (07:06): Mm-hmm. Right.

Marc Fryt (07:33): like kind of up near like a 90 degree angle, up above those street lamps. Sometimes, you know, there's other stuff that's hanging down and keeping your flies from snagging anything behind you. And then all of a sudden you're able to make these, you know, casts further out into the water when you're up in those elevated positions, including like standing on walls, standing on other, you know, waterfront areas, even a big fishing pier. ⁓ That cast really comes into hand.

Tom Rosenbauer (08:06): Yeah. I think it goes without saying that situational situational awareness in urban fly fishing also should include the fact that people don't understand that you might have a back cast. know, you got to turn around and don't they don't assume that they know that you're going to have a back cast because they don't, they don't understand fly fishing.

Marc Fryt (08:27): Yeah, you're absolutely right. There is this one moment where we were on the beach next to the Santa Monica Pier. again, we got out there early in the morning and we were fishing for surf perch. And ⁓ I was taking photos for my book and Annalisa, ⁓ she was casting and she's standing closer to the waves and this person is just walking down the beach towards her. and Annalisa is casting her line and you can see the back cast, like it's a very bright fly line that she was using. And the person just kept walking, like walking towards the fly line. it was strange because it was, you know, it reminded me that, man, like there's a lot of people that live in cities that have never interacted or seen somebody fly fishing, like quote unquote, in the wild. And...

Tom Rosenbauer (09:05): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marc Fryt (09:24): they, I guess they didn't connect the dots that, this person is casting their line and at the end of the line is a hook. Yeah. And so, Annalisa, Annalisa was paying attention ⁓ and, you know, had to stop her cast, which was, which was fine. You know, that person kept walking by and then she picked up her rod and kept casting. And so, that's an important point to bring up is that situational awareness ⁓ checking around you.

Tom Rosenbauer (09:31): Yeah.

Marc Fryt (09:53): checking sometimes like every time you do a back cast, which is gonna help your casting out in the long run. The less you can, know, the more you can get your line out there into the water without having to do like three, four, five back cast, you're just gonna become more proficient. ⁓ And, but you know, like we, even in those cases, there's a lot of times where I will only fish certain crowded areas. if there is somebody else there with me who can watch my back cast.

Tom Rosenbauer (10:24): Mm yeah, good. You have a spotter. That's a good idea. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (10:28): Yeah, you know, and that's, you know, it be a family member, a friend, heck, I've, you know, I've met strangers on the water, other anglers, not just fly fishers, anybody out there fishing and ask them, Hey, like, can you help watch my back cast explained what a back cast is? And they can tell you, Oh, Hey, you know, know, hold off, don't cast. There's a person coming kind of give you that, that clear, uh, go ahead. And that, Oh, that helps you to be able to.

Tom Rosenbauer (10:43): Mm hmm. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (10:57): focus on the fish that's in front of you. So you can kind of zero in and stay more in the moment and not have to take your eyes off that fish ⁓ and worry about your back-ass. No, it's too powerful.

Tom Rosenbauer (11:11): Let's let's wait to I think ups is here. Let's wait for my house is very open. So I have to ask my family to be quiet, but the dogs just don't listen to me. So it may take it may take a minute or so.

Marc Fryt (11:23): yeah, they never do. ⁓

Tom Rosenbauer (11:33): Let go see if I can shut them up.

Marc Fryt (11:35): Ha

Tom Rosenbauer (13:26): I met him up the driveway, so. New hooks from Fulling Mill, so. ⁓ What's up? You know, I've been having trouble getting some 2X long dry fly hooks, so they just got them in ⁓ for spinner patterns. All right, where were we? Do you remember where you were?

Marc Fryt (13:32): ⁓ nice. Yeah. What kind of hooks? What kind of what design? ⁓ Nice. Yeah. ⁓ Oh, checking your back cast. Yeah, having a spotter with you. Oh yeah. So having that spotter with you is also really important for also a particular situation. There's a lot of people nowadays, especially nowadays, that ride around on those e-scooters and those e-bikes.

Tom Rosenbauer (13:55): Yep. Right, okay. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (14:21): And even when you think, the coast is clear, I'm going to start casting. Like somebody comes whipping around the corner on an e-bike. I personally, I have had some close calls with it. And it's like, God, like that, just reinforces that point even for myself to, have somebody there spotting for you when you are in either very crowded space or if you are, let's say you're fishing along an urban river.

Tom Rosenbauer (14:24): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. you

Marc Fryt (14:51): and you're on a footpath, like a walkway, and there's vegetation along the river. But every now and then there might be like an opening that you can kind of sneak through the bushes a little bit and make a back cast, but your line is still going behind you and crossing that footpath. But now you've lost your peripheral vision because the foliage on either side of you kind of blocks that. That is like a critical moment to have somebody

Tom Rosenbauer (14:55): Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (15:19): there with you standing on that footpath that can relay to you, hey, somebody's somebody's coming down on a bike, like hold off, don't cast. So that that was a moment for myself when when I was fishing on a particular urban river and I thought the coast is clear. I sent my back cast ⁓ back, you know, in between the the bushes behind me through that window. And then somebody went by on a bike and I barely missed them. And I was like, yeah.

Tom Rosenbauer (15:45): Whoa. So barbless hooks are probably a good idea, right? In this situation.

Marc Fryt (15:49): ⁓ yeah, sorry. I kind of, yeah. And there's two reasons, well, I multiple reasons to pinch the barbs down on your hook. One of them is, yeah, just, you know, if you're fishing, yeah, like you don't want to try to have to pull out a barb hook from yourself, or if you're teaching someone to fish, ⁓ you know, a son, daughter, ⁓ and that just ends the day. ⁓ The other important reason is, yeah, the unfortunate... ⁓ situation if you do hook a bystander, ⁓ you want to make sure that barbed that barb is pinched down ⁓ or just by barbless hooks. ⁓ The other reason is unfortunately ⁓ urban waters are just way too most often are just way too polluted to even think about harvesting a fish out of and so

Tom Rosenbauer (16:26): Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (16:43): I know that there are some anglers that want to fish with the barb hook because they do want to take a fish home for dinner or something like that. ⁓ appreciate, or I too ⁓ value that at times where it's that deeper connection to the waters that you live near, where the harvest of fish out of and you feel more connected to that ecosystem. ⁓ But.

Tom Rosenbauer (16:59): Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (17:08): you really have to do your background research ⁓ into water quality and various sorts of contaminants and pollutants that are in your local waters. it can vary. It can vary even on ⁓ whether you're fishing a pond, a certain area on a lake shoreline or an ocean shoreline on a bay, and then different stretches of river. ⁓ It's something I do cover in my book ⁓ to give readers a little bit of a foothold.

Tom Rosenbauer (17:13): Yeah.

Marc Fryt (17:38): in that conversation and it really, yeah, it just kind of helps you to think about all the things that fish are up against in urban areas. ⁓ So.

Tom Rosenbauer (17:54): And use snips and don't bite your tippet like I do.

Marc Fryt (17:57): Yeah, yeah, if you're fishing around ⁓ a combined sewer overflow and you're licking your tippet, I would recommend ⁓ just spitting on it or just dunking it into the water. Yeah, you don't really want to be putting that in your mouth. ⁓

Tom Rosenbauer (18:02): he he he he he he he he he he We're really we're really encouraging people to do this stuff, aren't we? Yeah. ⁓

Marc Fryt (18:17): Yeah, no, I know. That's the whole air into this. I am, you know, I'm talking about, you know, stuff like fishing in crowded areas and off of bridges and around like a sewer outfall. And it's like, no, like, like there are some some really like impactful, meaningful reasons to fish your local your local waters. ⁓ It could be as simple as, well, you know, gas prices keep going up and I can't get out to areas that I that I

Tom Rosenbauer (18:44): Yeah.

Marc Fryt (18:46): normally love to go fishing in, but I love fishing so much that I want to keep doing it. And so maybe I need to start approaching these local urban waters in a different way. It could be, man, like I want to pass this on to my kids. It's something I want them to enjoy. Like it's meaningful for me. I hope that they could find something in it maybe. And it's

Tom Rosenbauer (18:48): Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (19:14): It's quite a lot to load everybody up into a car and then drive, you know, hours away, fish like a full day and drive all the way back and everybody's kind of exhausted at the end. Like there is something to be said about just going and fishing a city park pond and with your kids or other family members. And if people get bored or they, you know, after like 10, 15 minutes, like they can, you know, your kids can run off and go play on the playground and guess what, that gives you some time to go fishing yourself. And so it's kind of a win-win right there ⁓ out of the gate. And then for a lot of people, ⁓ that community aspect, ⁓ being able to find other people that are into fly fishing and local waters, ⁓ it's a growing, there are growing communities that are popping up in a lot of cities right now. And that is an exciting ⁓ aspect as well. And it can be,

Tom Rosenbauer (19:58): Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (20:11): a chance to meet other anglers and go out there and fish together. And you're in this like adventure, this journey together, helping each other out because like, my goodness, like we could use all the help we could get in some situations. Yeah.

Tom Rosenbauer (20:16): Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a good, you know. ⁓ People people I know have ⁓ They have a little trepidation about ⁓ going out with a fly rod and urban waters and ⁓ you know going with someone else gives you a little bit more confidence feel a little bit less insecure and I've I've found that in most fly shops these days It's the younger guys in the shop or the younger women that are really into into fly fishing urban stuff And, they're a lot of fun because they're inventing new ways of doing things. And, ⁓ yeah, it's, think it's really cool. So if you, if you have a local fly shop, ⁓ you know, find out, find out which of the, ⁓ which of the shop kids is, into urban fly fishing.

Marc Fryt (21:17): Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Go in there and meet different employees. And that's what I would say, like, just by kind of bringing up that conversation of, Hey, yeah, I'm interested in fishing locally. And sometimes shop employees will say, okay. Yeah. If you, if you drive like an hour outside the city, like, no, no, no, no. Like, like, I'm very interested in fishing within city limits. And then, you know, hopefully like somebody else in the shop or maybe that employee, like, ⁓ they'll be like, okay, like you want to go fishing like in your neighborhood or nearby. I know a great spot or this other person has a great spot in mind and they will kind of give you that entry into fishing local waters. And again, if you don't have a local shop, like not every city has a fly shop, ⁓ a great starting point are those ponds. ⁓

Tom Rosenbauer (21:55): Mm-hmm, yeah.

Marc Fryt (22:16): and those waterfront areas where you can meet other anglers. They most likely won't be fly fishers, but you can meet some really, really knowledgeable anglers. Like there was one angler I met in ⁓ Los Angeles. I was just walking around this urban lake and this angler had two spin rods and was just fishing that lake like, you know, the back of his hand. was,

Tom Rosenbauer (22:19): Mm-hmm,

Marc Fryt (22:44): Great, and I was like, I need to go talk to that guy. He knows what he's doing. And sure enough, he was a retired ⁓ professional ⁓ competition bass angler. And he was fishing that urban pond so well. And he was just an open book with me. ⁓ Just being ⁓ courteous, polite with people and ⁓ talking with them, just like a normal

Tom Rosenbauer (23:03): Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (23:14): human being, you'll be amazed with what people are willing to share with you. And I learned a lot from him that day and how to fish that particular urban lake. And even though I wanted to fly fish, I was still able to tease out like important details and the way that he was fishing that lake that could be transferred from spin fishing into fly fishing.

Tom Rosenbauer (23:36): Yeah, that's a smart idea. And you meet some interesting characters too in urban fishing locations.

Marc Fryt (23:42): my God, yeah, characters you'll run across, ⁓ yeah, it's the full gamut ⁓ and the stories and the experiences that some urban anglers have. ⁓ Yeah, that is, those are important ⁓ conversations to have and to listen to because their experiences will help to steer you into certain waters or avoid other waters and they'll give you key insights into more. They'll give you way more details than than what I could give you. Like even in my book, like it's a general guide. Like you really want like those fine grain details and other urban anglers who have been fishing these, you know, those local waters for like years, decades even. Like, yeah, that's who you want to have a nice conversation with, believe me.

Tom Rosenbauer (24:36): Yeah, because they have seasonal fluctuations and Fisher there sometimes and they're not there other times. Sometimes they're biting. those, those anglers can give you some really good tips on the right time of year and the right time of day to fish.

Marc Fryt (24:51): Yeah. And you could even find like some really ⁓ very, very, very like insightful urban anglers. ⁓ There's one angler in particular. ⁓ He lives up in the Minneapolis area and he works ⁓ as a water quality scientist at a municipal wastewater treatment plant. And he fishes the outfall of like those treatment plants.

Tom Rosenbauer (25:11): Mmm. huh. huh.

Marc Fryt (25:20): And if you're out fishing urban waters and you run into somebody like that, and you've always wondered in the back of your mind, man, what is exactly in that water coming out of that pipe? And how does it affect the fish that are swimming in the water below that pipe? That's the person you want to talk to. You want to talk to that water quality scientist who also fishes. I mean, it's a no-brainer.

Tom Rosenbauer (25:37): Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And most of that water coming out is generally relatively clean. mean, it doesn't, it's not something you like to think about where it's coming from, but it's, it's often in modern treatment plants, it's relatively clean.

Marc Fryt (26:02): Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ That's ⁓ any, that's if you are a more adventurous angler and you want to go fishing beyond, know, if you're like, ⁓ you know I fish the ponds, now I want to kind of get out there and do some more exploring. And let's say you have like an urban river ⁓ or a, I just kind of collectively call the river streams, creeks, ⁓ waterways. You have like a

Tom Rosenbauer (26:29): Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (26:31): a waterway in your city and you can locate a municipal wastewater treatment plant, there will be an outfall that discharges the effluent from that treatment plant into that waterway. That is an excellent starting point. ⁓ Fish will congregate around that outfall for a variety of reasons. ⁓ Sometimes they do...

Tom Rosenbauer (26:47): Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (26:54): There are specific conditions in which fish do get pushed away from that outfall. For example, the wastewater treatment plant ⁓ isn't doing a great job on thermal regulation of the water and it's discharging warmer water into that waterway, ⁓ and it's like during summer, fish might move away in order to get into colder, more well-oxygenated water. And then there could be other times where they

Tom Rosenbauer (27:10): Mm-hmm. huh. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (27:24): really gravitate to that spot, you know, during winter, when the water coming out of that treatment plant is warmer. that is a moment that I would just like to emphasize that if you do, there are times in urban waters where you will find these like golden nugget moments where you happen upon a particular spot and you're like, man, like a fish are stacked up right.

Tom Rosenbauer (27:27): Yeah. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (27:54): Like, that's awesome. That's awesome that you found that spot. Like, kind of do, you know, let your curiosity lead the way and figure out, okay, well, why is that? And it might be, ⁓ because that treatment plant is discharging warmer water than the surrounding water. And maybe after I catch one, two fish, that, maybe calling it a great day right there and not having to catch, you know, 20 fish because... If they're stacked up there, they're stacked up there for a reason and being able to, you know, not have to put too much of a hurt on all the fish down there. I'll just put it that way.

Tom Rosenbauer (28:32): Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you don't want other people to see you catching all those fish either. Cause then your spot will be crowded.

Marc Fryt (28:37): Yeah, yeah, yeah. mean, the treatment plant, like that is definitely not a not really a too much of a secret. Yeah, like you'll go down there and meet other you'll find other anglers down there all the time. I've been surprised to see, you know, just people down fishing that even my local treatment plant. So that isn't too much of a secret, I think. But there are there are other spots in urban waters that you will you will come across. And it

Tom Rosenbauer (28:48): Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (29:06): It may not be a secret or it may be a secret to you, but other people might know about it. So don't get too upset if people are there. ⁓ Urban areas are just far too crowded to think that you have like an unknown spot, ⁓ but you don't have to go sharing that information by any means. Like keep it to yourself if you want.

Tom Rosenbauer (29:25): Yeah, and you're not gonna get any solitude anyways, probably urban fishing, right? There's gonna be people around somewhere. Unless you go early in the morning.

Marc Fryt (29:32): Yeah, and that's another thing that I, ⁓ if there are fly fishers that are interested ⁓ into fishing locally, but they love the appeal, myself included, love the appeal of being able to go beyond city limits and kind of get out away from things and not have to see another human being, not have to hear car traffic, not have to... ⁓

Tom Rosenbauer (29:54): Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (30:01): Yeah, don't know, see trash all over the place or anything like that, like that's totally valid. ⁓ There are moments though in urban fly fishing where you can find those moments that you're almost in like a flow state and everything just kind of disappears around you, ⁓ even in very dense urban areas. And it's an important thing to kind of reflect on.

Tom Rosenbauer (30:19): Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (30:31): because that fly rod helps, it almost like transports you back into that like really beneficial space that humans need, like myself included. And it might not be that seclusion, ⁓ that moment of your own might not be for hours, it might only be for like a couple of minutes, but it's there.

Tom Rosenbauer (30:41): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (31:00): and it's another moment to be like, know, like there's something else here in these local waters and ⁓ it's special and worth exploring.

Tom Rosenbauer (31:15): Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ getting back to fishing from high places, bridges, ⁓ walls, ⁓ canals, what are your, what are your tips marked for, ⁓ hooking fish? Cause a high angle like that is often a very difficult hooking angle. And then what do you do about landing fish? If you want to take a picture of that beautiful carp or sunfish.

Marc Fryt (31:43): Yeah, and so both trying to hook into that fish and then land it, what will set you up for your greatest success is having a game plan before you even make a cast. And so you're up on like a high angle position. Let's say you're on a wall that's, you know, a story like 10, 12 feet above the water.

Tom Rosenbauer (31:57): Mm-hmm, yeah.

Marc Fryt (32:11): and it's just a straight drop down into the water. you're essentially on a cliff. And being able ⁓ to look around and see, okay, is it possible for me or somebody else to get close to the water's edge with a net? Or even something like a long handled net or a net like ⁓ on an extension pole. You can jerry-rig these things. ⁓

Tom Rosenbauer (32:30): Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm. huh.

Marc Fryt (32:40): And so just taking like a few moments to have that situational awareness again, to look around and see, ⁓ the wall dead ends, you know, 20 yards down and the bank then enters the water on like a nice gentle slope. so if I were to hook into a fish here, I can run over there or somebody else could already be staged down there and you just guide the fish over there. ⁓ This is where...

Tom Rosenbauer (32:56): Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (33:09): This is also where urban fly fishing, those that can think more out of the box and be a bit more creative, you're really going to have an edge because, and this is where I kind of have to tread lightly on some of this stuff because we, know, when you're fishing in urban areas, you're fishing on top of like built infrastructure, stuff that was never really intended for people to like climb on, fish off of, and try to net fish around. So you

Tom Rosenbauer (33:29): Yeah.

Marc Fryt (33:38): The more you understand about the built infrastructure, the more you'll be able to confidently ⁓ fish those places. I have fished in cities where there were ⁓ ladders going down into the water, like makeshift kind of ladders, ⁓ not makeshift, but like rebar just kind of wedged into the concrete. And it's mainly for people that fall into the water and it's a way for them to get out. It's not...

Tom Rosenbauer (33:47): Mm-hmm. huh.

Marc Fryt (34:07): It's not intended for somebody to like intentionally climb down with a net. And so it's like, but there's, you know, if there's not a sign there that's saying, Hey, no trespassing. And it's like a legitimate sign with a city, with a city code. ⁓ You know, it's, like, well, I'm, fishing in my environment and that's a, I'm looking at these fish swimming below me. I really want to catch those fish and myself or somebody else feels like they have the athletic ability to climb down that ladder safely, net the fish. Like, yeah, like I've done it and other anglers that I've spent time with, they've done it, but that's a at your own risk kind of thing and kind of weigh the cost benefits of that because you also want to check if you're in, especially in an urban waterway, you really don't want to be doing anything upstream of something like a low head dam because those are really treacherous.

Tom Rosenbauer (35:04): Yeah. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (35:07): There's fatalities every year with those things. And so you don't want to be climbing down into the water and then get swept downstream and go over one of those low head dams. That's not good. ⁓ the first thing is having that general strategy or game plan, looking around and thinking, if I come across a fish in this area, this is how I'm going to land it by getting down to the water's edge.

Tom Rosenbauer (35:10): Mm-hmm. Right, yeah.

Marc Fryt (35:35): if you or somebody else can't get close to the fish, well, again, like that doesn't mean that you should stop ⁓ thinking of other ways to net that fish. And that's where, again, either a net on some sort of like extendable pole comes in hand or what a lot of ⁓ anglers ⁓ already use in places like fishing piers and off of other bridges is something called a drop net. and it's just a circular net ⁓ connected by a rope and they'll lower these things down into the water. ⁓ Sometimes they'll have those nets pre-staged and they'll hook into the fish and then guide that fish over to the net and then haul the rope up. Having two people helps in this situation. Haul that rope up, ⁓ release the fish or I mean if they are keeping it then they'll put in their cooler or whatever. ⁓

Tom Rosenbauer (36:15): Mm-hmm. huh. huh.

Marc Fryt (36:33): And then if they're releasing the fish, they'll lower it back down. ⁓ If you want to go that route, ⁓ highly recommend rehearsing that before you catch a fish. And then you're trying to figure out, how do I use this drop net? ⁓ So rehearse it. ⁓ It's also a fun way. If you're rehearsing it and you can, you ⁓

Tom Rosenbauer (36:44): You

Marc Fryt (36:59): kill two birds with one stone, you can pick up garbage out of your urban waterway with your drop net. And it's like a front leg, you know. But rehearse that before you employ it. And you can use those things off of like a lot of high angle places, both in saltwater and freshwater. ⁓ So now you can think about, ⁓ so now that you have your game plan, you're ready to go ⁓ and you locate a fish and you make your cast. In the hook set,

Tom Rosenbauer (37:03): huh. Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (37:29): can be really challenging in some situations. one of the tougher situations that I had was I was fishing off of a bridge and it, mean, I think, yeah, was probably about almost two stories up. So really high angle and the fish was a little bit further downstream and it was, so it's looking up kind of back underneath the bridge. And so you're talking about like the worst situation to try to set the hook on a fish. cast your fly out there, the fly, you know, comes in front of the fish and the fish is pointing in your direction. And so even if you're trying to set the hook, you're essentially pulling the hook away from that fish and out of it. And then you think of like how much line you have out there and you're thinking of line stretch. That is a very, very challenging situation. And so you will.

Tom Rosenbauer (38:12): Yeah, right. Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (38:24): You will miss ⁓ setting the hook on plenty of fish in these high angle positions. It is possible. ⁓ And in that particular moment, what I did was I missed setting the hook on a couple fish. I brought the hook back up to me. The first thing I did was I checked the sharpness of the hook and I kind of filed it down with like a little hook sharpener. Really made sure that thing was like tacky sharp.

Tom Rosenbauer (38:32): Mm-hmm. Mm Yeah.

Marc Fryt (38:54): And then I cast it back out there, let the fly sink a little bit more, that fish came up and once that fish bit, I just waited like an extra brief moment and then almost did like a strip set and raising the rod up and back like a trout set. And once I felt that resistance, then it was like, then you can yard back on that fly rod and really ⁓ set the hook. ⁓ At that point, then it's, you know,

Tom Rosenbauer (39:06): huh.

Marc Fryt (39:24): anything can happen with that fish and it can go downstream. It can kind of go back upstream. It really depends on a lot of it depends on the infrastructure you're standing on top of. So if you're on top of a bridge, ⁓ those bridge pier. So ⁓ let me me quickly. ⁓ Sorry, you mind if I get a little technical with with some of this stuff? OK, ⁓ I love obviously, I love nerding out on some of these pieces of engineering.

Tom Rosenbauer (39:26): Mm. No, not at all.

Marc Fryt (39:53): I am not an engineer, so I apologize if I get any terminology wrong, but it is helpful to kind of use the same vocabulary that engineers use, and it gives us like a common language when we're out there fishing together. So when you're on a bridge, you're on the bridge deck, the flat part. It's what you drive across, it's what you walk across. And then underneath that bridge, you typically have like these vertical columns and they're called piers in the engineering world. And I know that's amazing because we think piers, fishing piers, Santa Monica Pier, it is what it is. And those piers can have different shapes. They can be circular, like a cylinder. They can be square. They can be an elongated wall.

Tom Rosenbauer (40:29): Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. OK.

Marc Fryt (40:51): And the shape of that pier really ⁓ influences how the water moves around that pier and how that water moves around that pier then influences how the fish ⁓ relate to it, like how they interact with those currents. And so, again, having that situational awareness and building into your game plan, looking below you, whether you're fishing upstream of the bridge,

Tom Rosenbauer (41:07): Hmm. Hmm.

Marc Fryt (41:20): or downstream, or even if you're directly underneath the bridge and you're wading or you're on the bank, take a look at how the water flows around those bridge piers. I'm talking about hydraulics, like movement of water around that. And that shape really determines the flow. ⁓ And so those fish, like when you're hooked into a fish, you can watch kind of the wake.

Tom Rosenbauer (41:31): Okay. huh,

Marc Fryt (41:48): coming off those piers and that fish will dart into that wake because it's easier for them to swim and then they'll really cruise upstream and then they can go under the bridge. And then you have a situation of like, man, okay, now I'm practically leaning over a bridge and my fly rod is like getting pulled under the bridge. ⁓ And that's where it's like, you can either let the fish run a little bit and now you're in a slightly better situation because now you have like a downstream hook set kind of going on.

Tom Rosenbauer (42:06): Yeah.

Marc Fryt (42:17): and let that fish tired out. ⁓ Try to veer it away from the fish pier as much as possible. ⁓ Really tilt your rod to the side and start guiding that fish over to your landing zone or where you intend to drop your drop net. ⁓ There's also one cool thing I think ⁓ that listeners might be interested in ⁓ with talking about ⁓ bridge fishing. And it's kind of a little bit, yeah, it gets even more geeky. Yeah. So it's really interesting to me. ⁓ So here on my local river, the Spokane River, there's a stretch of the river that has, it's pretty much like a free stone stream. There's a lot of boulders and I love going down there and I love fishing the front side of those boulders and catching fish. And it's one of my favorite things to do.

Tom Rosenbauer (42:52): That's okay. We like geeky here.

Marc Fryt (43:17): And when I first started fishing around bridges, I was doing the same thing, essentially. Like I was fishing the front side of these bridge piers, but I wasn't having nearly as much luck in catching fish. In fact, like I wasn't, I was hardly catching anything. And that's because the, the flow dynamics around a bridge pier and a boulder are just completely different. Like they're doing different things. So a boulder like a large boulder in a river creates essentially like a buffer in on the upstream side of it. So as water is flowing down and it meets that boulder, that boulder has a irregular ⁓ face to it structure and that helps to break up the current and it creates this this pocket in front of that boulder. And so yeah, if the boulder is big enough and the flow of the water isn't

Tom Rosenbauer (43:54): Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (44:15): extreme like you you'll definitely find fish on the front side. Now if you go and you're fishing on the upstream side of a bridge pier and here let's just take a specific example. Let's take a circular pier like a cylinder when ⁓ those cylinders those bridge piers are very efficient at shedding water. the water that approaches that bridge pier on the upstream side, it hits that bridge ⁓ cylinder and it comes to an abrupt stop. It's called a stagnation point. So the velocity of the water just reduces pretty much down to zero right at the bridge pier. But the water doesn't just freeze. ⁓ You have a

Tom Rosenbauer (44:58): Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (45:11): like a pressure change, like the pressure up near the surface of the water is greater. And then the pressure of the water down near the substrate, the bottom of the waterway is less. And so you have this pressure change. And so when the water hits that pier, it gets jetted downwards, like in a downflow, and it rockets down the face of the bridge cylinder and hits the bottom, hits the substrate of the waterway.

Tom Rosenbauer (45:32): Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (45:41): And of like a very like violent, like if the water, if the river is really flowing, it hits it pretty violently. And you could imagine if you were a fish trying to swim in front of that cylinder, I mean, you just get spit straight down and then you would impact the bottom of that waterway and then get spit around the side of the cylinder. And so during higher flows, I would recommend like, don't even waste your time fishing the front side of that cylinder.

Tom Rosenbauer (46:10): ⁓ huh. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (46:10): Like the fish just can't hold there. The only time that it does pay to fish the front side of a bridge pier is when the velocity of the waterway is less. So like late summer, that's a great time. And they will be, they can be on the front side of these piers, but they're going to be down near the bottom because that downflow, that water. as it ⁓ jets down ⁓ the bridge pier, it impacts that substrate and it starts to erode away sediment. And so it picks up gravel, silt, ⁓ sand, and it starts to move it away from the bridge pier. And it starts to form what's called a scour, a scour hole. And so it's scouring away. And then as...

Tom Rosenbauer (46:52): Mmm.

Marc Fryt (47:09): the water moves around either side of that bridge pier, you get these really complex vortices called horseshoe vortices. And then those vortices just keep picking up sediment and carrying it away. And so that scour hole just gets larger and it's in a teardrop shape. so fish will definitely be on the sides or the

Tom Rosenbauer (47:30): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (47:38): or on the downstream side of your bridge pier inside of that scour hole, even on relatively high flow days. And you can drift, you can get like a nymph, if you can get a nymph pretty far down there near the bottom or like a heavy streamer, or you're using like a sink tip line and get down close to that substrate inside of that scour hole, like you can catch a variety of fish species. ⁓

Tom Rosenbauer (48:04): Hmm.

Marc Fryt (48:05): Everything from like smallmouth bass, trout, catfish, catfish love those scour holes. They can be excellent spots to kind of prospect during summer months for catfish. ⁓ What's cool is on, so if we go back to the front side of that bridge pier, that scour hole is also forming a little bit on the upstream side of that bridge pier.

Tom Rosenbauer (48:11): huh. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (48:32): and it creates a ⁓ small holding spot for fish. when water is flowing at a ⁓ lesser rate, you can stand on top of a bridge, look straight down in front of that bridge pier, and you'll see fish hunker down in that scour hole ⁓ in front of that bridge pier. And ⁓ they just kind of cruise around right there, right at the lip of that scour hole. And that's a moment where it is worth fishing the front side of the pier. ⁓ Again, that's when the velocity of the water is overall ⁓ lower. And then, ⁓ sorry, I'm going to do one quick public service announcement too. So I know it's kind of weird, but ⁓ my engineering friends would just be like, you know, I don't want to upset them because I just brought up the topic of scour holes.

Tom Rosenbauer (49:10): Okay. Okay.

Marc Fryt (49:29): and this entrenching that can happen around bridge piers. And scour holes ⁓ are one of the leading causes of bridge failures in the United States. something like 60 % of bridges have failed due to scour holes. Yeah, and because what happens is, ⁓ especially during flood events or high water events, those vortices, those horseshoe vortices,

Tom Rosenbauer (49:41): Mmm. ⁓ wow.

Marc Fryt (49:58): can really push away sediment from the foundation of those bridge piers. And then it can start to, know, depending on the design of the bridge pier, it can undercut it. And then that bridge pier can topple over and that entire bridge deck would just go out. And if that happens at night, like that's scary because you could be driving along the road and all of a sudden you're just flying through the air because you don't realize the bridge is out. And so

Tom Rosenbauer (50:04): Yeah. Mm.

Marc Fryt (50:28): engineers like this is a real concern for them like scour holes are no joke and and yes like scour holes are around bridge piers like pretty much all the time but they really want to know ⁓ are those getting bigger ⁓ are they starting to undercut certain parts of that structure like that's the stuff engineers are really concerned with and so as as anglers as fly fishers if you're if you routinely fish a bridge that's close to your home or your apartment and you're out there like week after week and that's like your go-to spot. You are an active monitor of that bridge and you are watching that scour hole, you know, grow, shrink, you know, get deeper, get shallower. Like it's always changing, but you're kind of building like base knowledge of what that thing normally looks like.

Tom Rosenbauer (51:11): Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marc Fryt (51:27): And then all of a sudden after like a flood event or like a higher water event, you go out there and then that scour hole is like three times as large as you've ever seen it. And now you're seeing like parts of that, that bridge pier structure that you've never noticed before. Like that's a moment where it's like, let me call the department of public works or transportation or like my city's three one one and, see if I can contact an engineer because they, know, we don't have enough engineers or technicians that check on this stuff.

Tom Rosenbauer (51:49): ⁓ huh.

Marc Fryt (51:57): day in and day out, like their routine maintenance checks are like, you know, weeks, months, sometimes like years. And so they don't get eyes on this stuff. If you're down there fishing and paying attention, I mean, you're gathering very, very useful information that engineers ⁓ would really want to know ⁓ if it is like a ⁓ near catastrophic event like that. Like that is as an urban angler that's

Tom Rosenbauer (52:06): Yeah. huh.

Marc Fryt (52:24): It's not some abstract, like, civic obligation. This is practical use of your fishing knowledge.

Tom Rosenbauer (52:31): Yeah, wow. I never never thought of that, but something I'm going to pay attention to.

Marc Fryt (52:37): Yeah, yeah. you know, and so like, like I said, like those, those scour holes change and things like that. So don't go calling here your city engineer, like, my God, like it changed again. Like now like I kind of, you know, do a little bit more background research onto it. Like I have a blog article that goes more in depth on this stuff. So yeah, you can check it out. Yeah.

Tom Rosenbauer (52:55): Mm hmm. Okay, great. Well, that is, that is probably everything you need to know about fishing around bridges, right?

Marc Fryt (53:08): Well, no, because we haven't even gotten got to like abutments. man. Yeah, I could talk. Yeah. But that's a whole other topic like bridge abutments and fishing around those. Yeah. So I guess the point to that is, ⁓ you know, if you're if you're out fishing your urban waters, don't just pay attention to the things that you might be already familiar with, like like a log jam, like you might see a root wad.

Tom Rosenbauer (53:16): Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (53:37): or a log jam. And if you're experienced, like, yeah, you know that fish are most likely going to be positioned around that log jam. Don't... Or I encourage people to keep your curiosity open, keep an open mind. And when something catches that curiosity, like that pipe that's spitting out a funky looking liquid or...

Tom Rosenbauer (53:39): Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Marc Fryt (54:05): that bridge pier that you haven't yet caught a fish on the front side of it yet, follow that curiosity a little bit more. And even though it doesn't look like things we normally fish around, like it is trying to tell you something. And the more that you follow that rabbit hole, you're going to improve your own fishing ⁓ that is both applicable in a city and then well beyond it.

Tom Rosenbauer (54:13): Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I remember a I remember an interesting carp spot that I noticed one time on a small canal. There was a bird feeder. And ⁓ every time a big blue j landed on the bird feeder and dropped seed in the water, the carp would be right there eating the bird seed and I hadn't noticed it for a longest time. And then I realized why the carp were sitting there. They're waiting for the bigger blue jays to knock the seed off the feeder.

Marc Fryt (55:01): my God, that's wonderful. Yeah, the birdseed fly.

Tom Rosenbauer (55:02): Yeah. Yeah. Parachute Adams worked fine.

Marc Fryt (55:07): Yeah, yeah.

Tom Rosenbauer (55:11): Well, Mark, I want to thank you for for ⁓ coming on today and talking about your book and on urban fly fishing. It's a topic that ⁓ that I get a lot of interest in in the podcast. And it's so it's so encouraging to hear about people fishing closer to home, discovering ⁓ new things that they don't have to drive hours to ⁓ enjoy fly fishing and, ⁓ you know, take some pressure off our trout streams to which ⁓ these days can get pretty crowded in certain places. So ⁓ the more people we can encourage to fish close to home, the less crowded the rivers will be.

Marc Fryt (55:52): Yeah, yeah, we could, there's a lot of water to distribute the load. I'll just say that like there is a lot of untapped, well, like minimally kind of explored water. And I think fly fishers, yeah, like we're at a unique skill set to be able to like really dive into this stuff. Like it's truly exciting.

Tom Rosenbauer (55:57): There is. Yeah, it is. It is. All right, Mark, well, thank you so much. You want to tell people the name of your book once more before we before we sign off.

Marc Fryt (56:23): Yeah, my publisher just sent me one ⁓ copy the other day. So it's the guide to urban fly fishing. ⁓ And you can buy it at local bookstores or online at most retailers. And ⁓ for more urban fly fishing content, ⁓ free content, I have a blog and it's called ⁓ thetriplehaul.com. So it'll play on words. ⁓ T-R-I-P-L-E, Hall, H-A-U-L.

Tom Rosenbauer (56:58): Great, well thank you Mark, really appreciate it. And good luck with the book.

Marc Fryt (57:02): Thank you, Tom. Yeah, thank you so much.